Ep. 71 Finally Free!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: But we think of freedom as, oh, I'm never going to fail again. So I've reached freedom, meaning I'm never going to struggle again or I'm never going to fail again. And. And that's actually not freedom. Freedom is I'm never going to hide again. I'm never going to hide again. So. So I'm going to run to the light. I'm going to run to a trusted brother or a trusted sister for the ladies out there. I'm going to run to the light because that's where Christ is, where darkness can't hide. And Christ is who continues to shape and form, using every circumstance to make me, continue to make me in his image. And so I just love that, that it's not. Not failing. It's no longer hiding. So it's freedom no longer. So I have to wear a mask. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Hello, welcome. It's a beautiful day here in Paradise. Sunny southwest Florida. I'm in Venice, Florida. And how's it up there, Carl? [00:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been raining. We need it, so it's good. We need the rain, sure. But every day is a great day. [00:01:09] Speaker B: You bet. Yeah, likewise here. Even when it's too hot, we need the rain too. It's been a really drought, like all winter and into the spring even. Not much rain. So. Awesome. We're talking about being free, finally free. Have you ever said that finally I'm free? [00:01:27] Speaker A: I think I've got that book somewhere on my shelf. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Is it a book finally free? [00:01:32] Speaker A: I'm sure there is. There's a lot of books on. [00:01:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:35] Speaker A: On freedom and awesome. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Well, because I think just like, just like, I think so many of us, I think almost everybody, when we turned 18, we proclaimed that. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:48] Speaker B: It's almost like on graduation day, you're like, yeah, like maybe it's when you turned 18. Yeah, I'm free. [00:01:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:57] Speaker B: So that's kind of the first question just to kind of toss out there, just to kind of dialogue about. What did that freedom look like for you? [00:02:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:04] Speaker B: At 18 years old? [00:02:06] Speaker A: Right. What did it look like for you, man? [00:02:09] Speaker B: For me? [00:02:10] Speaker A: You already wrote down. [00:02:12] Speaker B: I did. I already put some of my stuff down there. In general, I was a pretty good. A good goody two shoes type of kid. Anything that wasn't goody two shoes was hidden and nobody knew about it. But so, but I mean, as a general rule, I was pretty responsible, you know, I did, I was, I was saved. Trusting Christ as my savior. I knew who he was. I knew that I wanted to serve him. I didn't Know what that meant? I felt called. I didn't know what that meant. So my biggest struggle for sure was lust. But that didn't, like, consume my life, you know? It wasn't like I jumped headlong into that right. When I turned 18. It was. Did. I don't know. I didn't know. Freedom in Christ, really. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:53] Speaker B: I think it was something I was chasing after. I didn't know that I had it. I didn't know what it meant. You know, I didn't know what Galatians 5:1 meant. It is for freedom that Christ has set you free. [00:03:03] Speaker A: Oh. [00:03:04] Speaker B: It was always kind of like, okay, I'm set free, but what. What does that mean? [00:03:08] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:03:09] Speaker B: So I love how it continues. Like one of the. One of the next words is to stand. And it's like that. Well, that. That already right there answers a little bit of what does that mean? I can actually stand in something that is already true of me. [00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:23] Speaker B: I didn't have that understanding. [00:03:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:25] Speaker B: But I mean, going. Going back to even the lust thing, I think. I don't know. I guess I didn't really. Maybe I did. It was just always the need to have a girlfriend. I don't know if it was just validation. [00:03:35] Speaker A: Validation. [00:03:36] Speaker B: Someone there to feel like I was special. You know, I just needed. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:03:41] Speaker B: Something. And of course, that always goes. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Goes right along with. With the lust stuff, you know, Maybe that's what you like the most, how you get to make out. Things always went too far, and I wanted them to, you know? But it was like. I don't know. It wasn't who I was. None of it was ever satisfying. And so there you go in this journey of, I'm hurt and I'm hurting other people. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:03] Speaker B: So. And I didn't communicate stuff very well, so. So I stuffed my feelings. So that's where I got to be, you know? [00:04:09] Speaker A: It doesn't sound like freedom. [00:04:11] Speaker B: It's not freedom. So what? I truly stepped into freedom finally. Well, I mean, I was free, but I truly understood freedom. [00:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Aware in the last three years, you know, really. At 43, when I. Yeah. I resigned from the church, you know, off I'm free. That was. I didn't even have that mindset then. I was still stepping into, hey, God, what's next? And I'm excited about what's next. And then God brought me into. Into what I'm in now. [00:04:39] Speaker A: And it's. [00:04:40] Speaker B: I wouldn't go back. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Wow. [00:04:42] Speaker B: It's beautiful. [00:04:42] Speaker A: So. So last night was listening to the Freedom Conference by John lynch that you went to, I think it was three years ago and that began your journey or it was one of the catalysts of the journey that you were on. And so I just, I was like making that connection thinking about you there. And then you came back the next night with, with your daughter and just seeing awesome things. [00:05:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's cool. I didn't even know there was a. I didn't know the name of it. [00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it was called Freedom. Isn't that something? [00:05:15] Speaker B: Cool. That's cool. [00:05:16] Speaker A: I just remember that now, right? [00:05:18] Speaker B: Yep. Forever. Yeah. What about you, man? [00:05:22] Speaker A: Well, I mean it's like 18. You can, you can vote, you know, you can go serve in the war. There's still things you can't do. There's things you can do legally or illegally. And somehow you think I'm on top. You think you're on top. I mean even like, even like graduating college, you think, oh, like I've arrived. You know, this is really dangerous for pastors and ministry leaders because we think I'm a pastor of a church. I've arrived. Oh, I've, I've. What have we arrived to? And so it's, it's really, to me it's scary when we have that mentality of. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:00] Speaker A: Of, of a pecking order or some arrived and it's like. Yeah, so that, that's going back to what you said. I mean, you know, 18 years of old, I'm finally free. I don't know if I ever thought that, you know, because, because I was still living in my parents house. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:19] Speaker A: But there is some sort of independence that you feel. I'm an adult now or I can't go do this now. And it's. Yeah, it's, it's crazy. That immature. I mean I look back and just think, man, so immature. So immature. [00:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah, right? Yeah. So good. And yeah. Like I kind of just want to jump right into. Because I think there's a lot of misconception about freedom. I think there's this misunderstanding about freedom altogether. Like I never understood it. Like I said. [00:06:47] Speaker A: No, I didn't either. [00:06:50] Speaker B: What is it? You know, it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. It's another one of those verses I just, I didn't continue to read if I just continued reading it. It says to stand, stand, stand in this truth. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:03] Speaker B: And then you can go to like Colossians, you can go to Romans and you can find out all these incredible truths about who you are in Christ. And then Ephesians 6 tells you again to stand, stand in that armor. And I think I was so focused on putting it on that I wasn't standing in it. [00:07:23] Speaker A: Standing in the truth. Right. Standing in the truth of who Christ is in you. Standing in the truth of your new identity as a child. Right, all those things for sure. Dude. It literally says the next phrase. I know relations, but we've done that with all these verses. So it says for freedom, Christ is free. Very next phrase, Stan. Firm. That's the very next word. [00:07:50] Speaker B: It's amazing. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Stand firm, therefore, because you are free. Not trying to reach freedom or achieve it. But that's what we think, right? [00:08:00] Speaker B: Yeah, well it's not only what I thought, it's also what I challenged others to do. [00:08:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:06] Speaker B: And I was challenged them to emptiness because it's basically just more law based living that you're never going to accomplish. You're always going to be frustrated and no wonder because you're trying to achieve something that has already been achieved through the blood of Christ and his love for us. The most difficult thing like we've oftentimes says is to really to receive is to trust these truths that they're true. Can I actually receive this reality of about who I am? So yeah, so that's what we tackle. The next question I guess is that what is freedom and what do we do with the possibility of recklessness? Kind of two questions in there, I guess, but what is freedom and what do we do with it? [00:08:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I would like to, I would like to keep those separate. Yeah. What is freedom? I know, I know our buddy Scott has a great definition of freedom and I don't think it's, it's exclusively his. But we think of freedom as oh, I'm never going to fail again. So I've reached freedom, meaning I'm never going to struggle again or I'm never going to fail again. And that's actually not freedom. Freedom is I'm never going to hide again. I'm never going to hide again. So I'm going to run to the light. I'm going to run to a trusted brother or a trusted sister for the ladies out there. I'm going to run to the light because that's where Christ is, where darkness can't hide. And Christ is the one who continues to shape and form, using every circumstance to make me continue to make me in his image. And so I just love that, that it's not, not failing. It's no longer hiding. And so freedom no longer. So I have to wear a mask. I can be vulnerable, I can be open and allow the allow Christ, as it says in, in the cure that a paper mache mask can't really reflect Christ. Right. Second Corinthians 3, 17, 18. That people can see Christ in us when we take the veil, the veil off our faces. What about you? When you think of freedom? [00:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah, man, I. I think just true rest. It's like when I. When I can stand firm in my freedom in Christ, man, I'm just at rest. And so like even if I do find myself with a mask or posing, I'm not there as long as I used to be. So what's one thing for sure. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really. [00:10:24] Speaker B: And that's because I'm free. Because now I'm actually free. [00:10:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:28] Speaker B: To call a trusted brother or yeah. Text someone or. [00:10:32] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Or even if it's just to bring it to God and say, oh God, I'm. I'm masking up again and that's not who I am. And, and you love me in spite of this or that or. And so it's a beautiful thing for sure to just stand in that reality that I'm loved by God, man. I mean, that brings rest. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Yes, it does. [00:10:58] Speaker B: So I don't need to try to achieve something with him. I don't need to try to please Him. He's pleased with me. I'm his child. And that's a beautiful thing. When I can know freedom and I can know my life in Christ, I actually don't want to be reckless. [00:11:13] Speaker A: Thank you. Why? [00:11:14] Speaker B: It's not who I am. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:17] Speaker B: And I'm standing firm in this reality of who I am. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Your new heart yearns for God and the things of God. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:26] Speaker A: Isn't that something? So when you taste an abundance of grace, it doesn't cause recklessness or waywardness or the crooked road. It's actually the more we are aware of this grace and the more we're aware of this freedom in Christ. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:43] Speaker A: Our new heart is so beautiful. It's in step with Him. [00:11:46] Speaker B: It's. [00:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Wanting more. When I say more, it's not more of somehow Jesus, it's more of his mercies, more of his grace, more of his peace. Because we already have everything we need. Right? [00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:59] Speaker A: So it's like written it out, it's experiencing it relationally. It's all those things which I think you. [00:12:06] Speaker B: Wow. [00:12:07] Speaker A: You get it. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. For sure. So I'm just going to share these, these couple of quotes. This is coming out of. You know, Wayne Jacobson, one of our favorite authors. This is coming out of his. You got 365 daily reflections. It's called Live, Loved, Free and full. Good, man. Just that alone is so good. That sounds like rest. You know, Live, loved, free, Free and full. Yep. So there's that. That freedom word is right there in the middle of. And we can. We can live free. We can live in our freedom. We can stand firm in who we are in Christ. Yeah, but this is one of the things that you said, freedom is not the end of the journey. That just. That is interesting because as an 18 year old, I thought, just like you were saying, I've arrived, I'm here, like, finally, and oh, it's not the end of the journey. So he goes on to say this. Freedom is not the end of the journey. It's the trailhead for an adventure that can revolutionize your life. It's the trailhead into. Into that much more. [00:13:08] Speaker A: So he. So here's. Here's something interesting because there are people like me who don't understand what a trailhead actually would be referring to. And so when it comes to, like, hiking or mountain biking, what. What would a trailhead. What would that. What would that mean? What does that mean? And then we can define it with the freedom. [00:13:25] Speaker B: Sure, man. I mean, the best illustration, personally, is I with my daughter and my sister and her daughter. We. We specifically drove all the way to Georgia from Michigan in order to start the Appalachian Trail from the trailhead from the beginning. And there was something this significant about getting there and seeing the plaque of, like, this. It's in Iraq. And like, wow, we're actually on the Appalachian Trail. And this is where it begins and it ends in Maine. And we didn't make it that far, but talk about an adventure for five days. [00:14:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Um, and what I really. Man, it's not like a casual stroll through a local state park like. Like where, you know, there's a road that you can just exit out. [00:14:14] Speaker A: Those are the ones I like. [00:14:18] Speaker B: You do come across a town every couple days, so that's good. But when you're on the trail, I mean, you're on the trail. Once you're in, it's like, this is it. This is the adventure. [00:14:29] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:14:30] Speaker B: And it's. So it's. It changes everything about the way that you live. You know, like, you don't have the things that you have when you're at home. [00:14:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:39] Speaker B: So I don't know if that helps a little bit. [00:14:42] Speaker A: That helps. That was very much. All right, so back to the quote. Yeah, it's that freedom is not the end of the Journey. [00:14:50] Speaker B: Right? [00:14:50] Speaker A: I mean, that's, that's. That right in itself is amazing because we think freedom is like, freedom's like the goal, or freedom is when I've arrived. And he's like, no, no, no, no, it's, it's not the end. It's the trailhead for an adventure. So he's saying this is just the beginning, right? It's the beginning for an adventure that can revolutionize your life, right? [00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah, it's so good. And the quote specifically says, it's a trailhead for an adventure that can. And I struggled a little bit with that word, it can revolutionize your life. Until I read a couple days later, there's another. It's a double edged sword. So he's saying that freedom can be this double edged sword. And so this is the next quote from a couple days later. Freedom is not only the trailhead to the depths of God's heart, it is also the trailhead away from it. And he says, scary, isn't it? And it's like, yeah, I mean, not so much for me, but especially for us now that we've had 18 year olds and we've now sent our kids to the next phase of their life as 18 year olds. Because now that actually starts to make a little bit more sense. Right. And the bottom line to me is that, you know, control is an illusion. And I think that I have control. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that, Zach. It's an illusion, right? The illusion of control. [00:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Especially those of you who are parents, we think that God's called us to control, right. Our kids. And it's like, no, no, no, it's, it's the Holy Spirit, like, like just even giving that to go that to God about our kids. That freedom can be, like you said, it can be the trail head to the depth of the heart of God, but also it can be to the depths of, you know, listen, one of the chapters we love and he Loves Me, Wayne's book is on the prodigal son. And the question that he asked, beautiful. When did the father love the son the most? And the. In the story that the prodigal son, which is really the amazing dad, right? And that story, when did he love that rebellious son the most? And most of us would say, well, when he came back, right? Because he ran out there and he did. And Wayne's like, no, no, no, he loved him fully the whole time. He loves them enough. When he's, when he let him go with the money, right? Let him go with Half the inheritance. He loved him fully then and he loved him fully back. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Wow. [00:17:21] Speaker A: That's the heart of our Father. I mean, think about that. That's the heart of the Father. So if I choose recklessness, if I choose right, if I, If I allow freedom to choose to go away, is God's love still fully in me? And yeah, I think, I think the beautiful thing is our lives are testimony of God bringing us to. Not out of damnation or condemnation, but out of love. [00:17:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker A: To bring us to a place of freedom. To bring us to a place of rest. [00:17:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. That's so good. So incredible because it's like, you know, when our kids were infants and toddlers, they had only depended on us. Right. So it's kind of easy then. But then. Then comes a point when our own kids, you know, they. They get to junior high, high school, college age, and beyond. [00:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:16] Speaker B: And this is a point in their life when they, they need to learn dependence on God themselves. They can't be correct. Can't be, oh, what does mom think? What does dad think? [00:18:26] Speaker A: So good. [00:18:27] Speaker B: It has to be them. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:28] Speaker B: The only way that they can actually do that is through freedom. It's like. And that includes, you know, the freedom to really screw things up. [00:18:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:38] Speaker B: But I think that in, in that time, too, that's also the. When you experience the Father's love, just like the prodigal. Yeah. So freedom isn't the end of the journey. I really, like, I really love that. I just, I don't know why I'm going back to that, but I just think, I guess that's the prayer, like the Ephesians prayer for me, that grip to me that got open my. It's the prayer that I pray so that I began to pray that over my own kids because they were getting to that age, even during that season, and I was like, God, I'm just praying for wisdom and revelation for, for them to know you, God. Because it's not about me controlling anything. It's about God really breaking through in their own lives so that they can experience, so that they can depend on, so that they can trust and their Heavenly Father even more than they can trust in me and man. So here, I mean, here you have even, like Paul in the Galatians. It's just so beautiful because here you have the Galatian people that are using their freedom as an excuse to indulge in the flesh. And I think that's where the confusion of, oh, if we have too much grace and we're just going to be Running naked in the streets. And I think, well, you can't have too much grace. Grace is a person. His name is Jesus. So if you can have too much grace, you're saying you can have too much Jesus. And I just, I don't. I don't buy that. But I understand the confusion because I was there too. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:59] Speaker B: So. So Paul, even this is so incredible. Paul still spoke up for the necessity of freedom. So even in the face of those who abused freedom, Paul still spoke up for the necessity of it. And the reason being that you cannot know the love of God without freedom. And it's so hard to process some of that stuff. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Well, and that's why Paul says, hey, don't use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love, serve one another. Right. And I think that that's. That's beautiful. Beautiful. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. I mean, as long as you believe and you think that you are bound to sin, to law, to legalism, to law based living, I mean, freedom's gonna always elude you. You're never gonna understand or see it or believe it. You're never gonna stand in it. [00:20:52] Speaker A: No. [00:20:53] Speaker B: And Romans 6:14, for sin shall not be master over you. [00:20:57] Speaker A: So good. [00:20:58] Speaker B: Because you're not under law, you're under grace. So a big part of freedom is really being free from the law. [00:21:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:04] Speaker B: And when we can know that, it's like, oh, I can be me. I can be me and Christ in me. That's beautiful. So beautiful. So, Carl, we're finally free. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Finally. Hey, how about this? May we live loved, free and full. [00:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah. That's so good. So amazing. Thank you.