Let’s Talk Life, ep. 30 - Step Into Trust

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello. And here we are again. Let's Talk Life. This is episode 30. Let's talk life is where we simply and maybe frankly talk life in Christ and talking trust. Today. I feel like that's a very reoccurring theme for us, Carl. But I also think. I also think that you can't talk about it too much. [00:00:27] Speaker B: That's right. [00:00:28] Speaker A: So. Yeah. How you doing today, Carl? [00:00:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I was. I was waiting for you to say hi to me and appreciate your. Your greetings. You know, it's something every. Every day, every situation is an opportunity to trust, an opportunity to grow into trust. And so that's why I think we can never speak about it enough. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Right. I mean, my mind goes right to what you already had already just read before we got on to the record button, but we may as well go right there. [00:01:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, thank you. [00:01:03] Speaker A: The past. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:05] Speaker A: So because you read. Do you want to read it? You want to share what you just shared? Because I think that, you know, it's funny, because I have that very line underlined. [00:01:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:16] Speaker A: But I didn't really process it the way that you said it until you said it. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:22] Speaker A: So it's. So that's why we just keep talking about it, because there's always something greater. [00:01:27] Speaker B: That's right. So again, the Path is True Face's new book, and it's on page 122, 123. And the context is all about shame. And it's like, what is the antidote to shame? The antidote to shame, in my opinion, is vulnerability. It's learning to trust God and others with me. And so here's the quote, right? Here's the phrase, did I do something wrong? Guilt? Or is there something wrong with me? Shame. This question is an identity statement. Shame doesn't want. Shame doesn't just want to get at our behaviors. It wants to get at our very core, who we believe we are. This is why we never graduate from learning to trust God with who we are. And I just love this. It's not like, oh, we learn trust, then we move on to something else. It's like every circumstance, every opportunity, every season is an opportunity to trust God and to grow into trust. Grow in my trust of who he is, who he says I am, and what he wants in this situation, not what I want, which is what I used to think trust was. Well, I'm trusting God that he'll get Zach together. I'm trusting God that things will get better in my life. That's not actually trust. That's manipulation. I'm trying to manipulate God to get what I want. Even if it's a good, noble cause God, I want what you want for me. I want to walk in obedience into what you have for me. And that's trust. You know, surrendering what I want for him, trusting him. What about that, like, resonates with you and. And just where you are in life? And. [00:03:06] Speaker A: It has changed for me. My whole thinking has changed in so many. Just little things, but they're so. They're little, but they're so profound. And that's. Right, like living the Christian life is one of them. And that's what this really relates to, is we always think that we're on this. This treadmill or, I don't know, maybe it's better illustrated as climbing the ladder, you know, trying to get somewhere, and you're just striving to get there. And then you feel like, okay, finally. This is always. The mentality is, well, if I can just get to this place, then. [00:03:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:45] Speaker A: I'll be at rest. And the reality is, even this walk with God throughout this entire lifetime that we physically live right here and now, yet we never graduate from learning to trust. [00:03:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:00] Speaker A: So there's never. There's never that, you know, end point where we get to, like, oh, finally I've arrived and I'm. I can just live from this place, place of complete. So the. The reality is, though, I can, in the midst of all the turmoil, live at peace. So there might be, like, see these platforms that I get to. And I feel at rest. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:22] Speaker A: And. But the reality is, even in the midst of all the heartache and the fears and stuff to be afraid of, I can still live in. In complete peace. And I love that this whole section, like you said, is all about shame. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:04:35] Speaker A: And I. I think. I think that just freedom from shame is a huge step for a person. And I think that's part of the victory that I really have in my life is that I don't just dwell on that shame and just live in shame. I've stepped into trusting who I already am. I'm already the victor over. Even though this thing is maybe physically present in my life right now, it's like, but I'm the victor over that thing, that. That I'm dead to that. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Right. Right. [00:05:08] Speaker A: As Romans 6 says, as Colossians 2 says, that's not. That's not who I am. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Wow. [00:05:14] Speaker A: We can't talk about it enough. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Well, because there is a mystery to. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:20] Speaker B: To God and. [00:05:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:23] Speaker B: And getting out of the mold of formulas and systems and learning to trust in a relationship, a loving father. It's different. It's a different way to live. And it's exciting. It's sort of like an adventurous of. All right, God, I'm kind of excited to see how you're going to turn this around. I'm excited to see what you're going to do here. And there's freedom, you know, it's like. It's an adventure. It's freeing. Because it's not up to me. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Right? [00:05:53] Speaker B: Not up to me. [00:05:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And it is. It's so. It's scary. [00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:59] Speaker A: But it's exciting. It's exciting. We like. And it actually gives you a purpose every single morning to wake up and not be like, I'm worried about this or I'm worried about that, but instead to wake up saying, okay, God, I'm trusting right in you and what you have for me today. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Right. No, I was just going to ask you. Because even when we come, when we think about sin, you know, we think about sin when it comes to trust. Because when we think about sin, it's like, oh, well, I can give you a list of five things that are really bad. And we all say, these are really bad. But what does, like, Romans 14 say about. About not trusting God? [00:06:34] Speaker A: I know I go back to this all the time. Verse 23 of Romans 14. I continually go back there mentally, and I share it all the time. Whatever is not from faith is sin. [00:06:48] Speaker B: Wow. [00:06:48] Speaker A: And something that I've just done in this last couple of years is every time I come across the word faith, I've replaced it with the word trust. Because it helps me. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:57] Speaker A: To process what's being stated here. So if I do that with this ver. Whatever is not from trust is sin. So I can choose any day, any part of any day to not trust God and to trust my own instincts and my own efforts, and that's sin. And it's as simple as that. It's like as. As good as it might be if I'm doing it in my own strength. It is. It is sin. [00:07:23] Speaker B: Wow. [00:07:24] Speaker A: And then. And Proverbs 3, 5, and 6 is another verse that just popped into my mind thinking about this, stepping into the trust. Because it says to trust in the Lord. [00:07:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:33] Speaker A: And the. The really the opposite of that is if you're not trusting him, then you're leaning on yourself. [00:07:39] Speaker B: Yeah. You're trusting self. [00:07:42] Speaker A: And that's flesh. It's all just flesh. [00:07:46] Speaker B: Then. And this is beautiful. I mean, going back to the Romans 14, right? Before that, he says, hey, the faith that you have, so the trust that you have, it's between you and God, you know, and dealing with maybe some, some I wouldn't even call them secondary issues. It's like very low on the, just the, the principle here is this trust is between you and the Father. And, and if I'm not trusting, I am sinning. Like, like a question I would love to pose and to pastors, ministry leaders, right? Where. Where in this are you trusting God? [00:08:21] Speaker A: Sure. [00:08:22] Speaker B: Where in this? [00:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:23] Speaker B: This machine that you and I call the Sunday morning machine. Where's trust that you know? And, and, and so, so for me, and I know you said the same thing, I look back on my life and say, man, I never trusted God once. You know, I trusted Jesus died for me. I believe he died for me. I believe that he was the only way. So that Jesus died, was buried and rose again for my sins. But when it came to just trusting God, it was that, right? I didn't understand. [00:08:50] Speaker A: It was hope. It was like this prayer of, boy, here's, here's what I'm doing, God. Here's my plan. I pray that you would bless it. I sure hope that you're going to do something right. [00:09:00] Speaker B: We use the words trust all the time. Like, oh, trust me, your heart. But we had no idea what that really meant. Look like. [00:09:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's for sure. Because, I mean, I think that's what that Romans verse is really coming at is. It's, it's highlighting the importance of living a life that is just rooted in faith. Or like, I like to use the word trust. It's rooted in trust, trusting God. And it's amazing how easy it is to just trust myself. And it's like, no, I'll. I'll just try harder next time, right? And, well, that's, that's not trusting. [00:09:36] Speaker B: No, no. And even, even like decision making, right? Like, there's a trust aspect. We walk by faith, not by sight. But a lot of our decisions are made out of what we think is what God wants for us. So we just go ahead and say yes, or we go ahead and do something, or we, or we try and manipulate relationships because we think we know the best way or we're the right way. And listen, I mean, I go back to Adam and Eve, I go back to Abraham and Sarah. Abraham and Sarah were given a promise of descendants, but they didn't trust God with how to get there. So, you know, Abraham listens to Sarah. So the thing with their relationship, but they didn't trust God with no God. Guess what? God still redeemed and God still restores and God still does amazing things. [00:10:23] Speaker A: But. [00:10:24] Speaker B: But that's an example of. Of not trusting in that moment. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Sure. Oh, man. So I threw some questions out for us to kind of look at, and I don't know which ones you want to tackle, but just stuff to think about. Even if we don't cover it, it's just good to throw this question out because anyone that's listening. [00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:44] Speaker A: You know, ask yourself this question and. And explore and reach out to us. Like, we'd love to just. [00:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:10:52] Speaker A: You know, journey together. It's. It's all a journey. But how difficult? Maybe this is something that we can kind of touch on each of us. How difficult has it been for us to step into trusting God? To which I just say, well, it's extremely difficult. I think it's really more difficult than it is in some ways than trusting in myself, because there's a lot of things. I can just give a list of things. If as long as I just do these things, then I'll be okay. Well, that's. It's easy for me to follow a list. Yeah. Give me a list. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:30] Speaker A: It's much more difficult to say, let's just scrap that list and let's just take a step forward into faith. What does that look like? [00:11:39] Speaker B: Right, right. And, well, I mean, just like you said, just the illusion of control. It's like, so. So if I'm trusting self, I have control. It's actually just an illusion. It's just an illusion of control that we have, but we think it's working for us. People say, you know, every pastor, well, what am I supposed to do now? What am I supposed to do? I don't think there's anything more difficult to do than to trust. Then it's simply leave it in his hands, to simply. Whatever it is. Whatever it is. [00:12:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. Because. Yeah, there's. I mean, it's not that we've. We've already covered this. Like, you don't ever arrive. You don't ever graduate from this. This journey of trusting and. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Trust with God. And so, like, in even these last couple weeks, I mean, I had these counseling appointments that were pretty consistent for a while, and then the last couple weeks, it's kind of died down. And. And then I'm kind of leaning into, like, okay, I'm connecting with these pastors. I had a great ministry even in Michigan. I'm still in touch with those people. And right Connecting with more pastors down here. I'm thinking, okay, I want to put together something. And then there's this fear that overwhelms me sometimes of like, well, why would they want to talk to me? Right. You know, like, like, what do I have? But then I think back to Michigan and I just started just reaching out to guys and it was like these beautiful connections and we just built each other up and it was just such an amazing connection. So that's where I just like, ah, forget that fear. Forget that. That's not who I am. [00:13:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:10] Speaker A: That's where I step into trust. [00:13:12] Speaker B: Right, exactly. So it's perfect because I believe that fear and trust are opposites. So what is it that we're afraid of? Right. What is that fear for? For. For you, for me? What would that fear be that prevents us from trusting? [00:13:28] Speaker A: Right. And I think it always goes back to identity. I'm just not trusting in who I am. In Christ, in me. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:35] Speaker A: Because. Because that's the reality. That's the common denominator. Right. Among believers. And so we can just journey together. It doesn't matter, like, but that's what the world is oftentimes looking at. Okay. Yeah. Well, what are your credentials? Like, why would I sit under you? Or oh my, what do you have to bring to the table? What can I glean from you? It's always, wow. And this is a different journey. Yeah, this is a whole different journey. [00:13:59] Speaker B: It's. Right. [00:13:59] Speaker A: It's incredible. [00:14:01] Speaker B: There's an old saying, and I'm never going to say this ever in my life, but the school of hard knocks, right. It's, it's, it's. Yeah. The fear of man, the fear of what they think or, you know, it can cripple us. And all of us have fears. Right. And just naming that fear, but said, all right, God, this isn't who you are. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Wow. [00:14:24] Speaker B: And this isn't who Christ is in me. Right. We didn't get a spirit of, of fear. He didn't give that to us. [00:14:31] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:31] Speaker B: That's from the flesh. That's, that's something that we've went alongside of us the last 40 some years. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Right. So he has given us a spirit of power and love. [00:14:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:44] Speaker A: And those just, those two alone are like everything. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:49] Speaker A: It just changes everything. If we can just receive his love. I mean, so no wonder then the overflow is for me just to live that self discipline, focused life because I'm just trusting in who I am. Man, that's so good. I was sitting. It's called the 180 House. It's. I'm kind of in partnership with the church and with youth for Christmas, but the youth group here has started to meet there. The youth pastor here is kind of overseeing that house now, the 180 house. But the youth group is meeting there and I'm leading the youth group for the next two times that they meet just because he's getting married. And. Yeah, so I'm sitting there, I got there, I was early, I was setting up and I was making sure this and that worked. And I was just kind of overwhelmed with some of these things. Just like I was saying, like, I don't know, what should I do? What's the next step? And it was so, so amazing that as I was just bringing those things to the table and just tossing those things out to God saying, I don't know, God, should I go this way or should I go that way? [00:15:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:50] Speaker A: I don't know. What, what am I doing? And it really led me back to my initial question of what are we doing? Because I'm not doing it alone. So I'm reunion. [00:15:59] Speaker B: And yes. [00:15:59] Speaker A: And it was so awesome. I got back to my office here and there's a lot of ministry folk here, but the church is right below me. I had a conversation with one of the staff members at the church and it was just amazing because I was being told, we're behind you, like you're the qualified leader. And I'm like, like just, just minutes ago I was thinking, no, I don't know if I'm enough. I don't know if I'm this. And then, then I'm having. Somebody is telling me, not even knowing where I was coming from, like, you're the qualified leader. And I'm like, that's amazing that you're even saying this to me right now. And it was just, it was just God's confirmation. And he does those kind of things all the time. [00:16:36] Speaker B: Yes, he does. [00:16:37] Speaker A: And what. But what it means to step into trust is just me. Like, I just presented that to the Lord. I just say, God, this is, this is how I'm feeling. And so yes, even. And I still throwing out to say, what am I, what am I doing? What do I need to do? And I'm also still throwing those things out to God, but still also resting in the fact that it's not about me doing anything other than just me trusting you and what you have for me. And so that brings us even to our other questions of what is trusting God look like. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And, and again, it's, it's like this beautiful reminder that everything we have is his. And so holding it loosely, not tightly. Everything. Everything, you know, that God. Everything. Everything you've given me. [00:17:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:21] Speaker B: Is yours. Like, I'm not an owner, I'm a steward. And, and it just looks different. But just even, even with our children, right, in their, in their sports, whether it's baseball, soccer, like, everything is just learning to trust God, you know, because. Because I think the initial response is to overreact to situations and circumstances which I'm still guilty of at times. But it's like, all right, how can we see God in this? You know, even. Maybe that's a great question, you know, just how God, how can I see. Help me, help me to see you in this. Because the lie is you're not in it. The lie is that you're absent, you're avoid. You're not. It's like, no, no. God, help me to see you in this. Right? Help me to. Help me to trust you. That I don't have to know the answer. I don't have to see what you're doing right now. But I believe you're in it, right. I. I know you're in it. [00:18:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's looked like for me is just even, even now as I being a dad of three sons that are, you know, 18, 18, 17 and 10, and just giving them that, that view of God, of trust, the beautiful trust. How about, how about for you? [00:18:30] Speaker A: Well, I mean, it's very, very similar. I mean, I have two older kids that are up in Michigan and they're on their own journeys. My daughter just got married and that. [00:18:42] Speaker B: Your father in law. [00:18:44] Speaker A: That's right. It blow. Blows my mind. It's crazy. So there's, There's a lot of things to trust God for all the time, but it looks like the leap, you know, like going back to this resource that we've used, the book the Path. Right. True face. I mean, that leap. I remember watching the video and it. And even in reading the chapter, I feel like it kind of ended with this kind of connection and this union with Christ and this taking this leap together. And for me, both in reading it and watching this little video clip, it was like it just happened so fast. All of a sudden they were just doing this leap and I was just like. It didn't really resonate. But then I sat and I just chewed on it for a little bit and I realized, oh man, what does this look like for me? I've. I've taken some major Leaps, you know, that I've talked about. And you've taken major leaps too, in the past. And, oh, yeah, it's like, it's. It's so frightening. But the reality of just all, like, moving to Florida alone, by all logic, it didn't even make sense. You know, I've said that over and again. [00:19:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:52] Speaker A: But I think a little bit of what trusting God looks like is. Is just. Just that it doesn't really make sense. I mean, you think about Abram. He was told, leave and I'll leave. Go to a place that I'll show you. And it's like, right, where are we going? Like, we usually want all the details. You know, he didn't have all those details. You have Moses, like, go confront Pharaoh. It's like, well, who am I to confront Pharaoh? [00:20:21] Speaker B: Right? [00:20:22] Speaker A: You have Noah, like, go build a boat. It's going to rain. And he's like, what's rain? You know, like, it's just amazing that these. These guys just operated and stepped into trust. It's not easy, that's for sure. But. But it's everything. It. It really changes everything. So. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Yeah, even. Even the. You brought up Abraham. You know, I referenced Abraham and Sarah, even Hagar, right? God. God says hagar, go back. Go back to the servant that's mistreating you. So trusting God does again. This doesn't mean he's going to fix everything the way we want him. It doesn't mean he's gonna. He's gonna do everything according to what we want. But I'm telling you that. That when we trust God, that it's going to be better than we could ever imagine. And then it can include pain, it can include suffering. But he redeems that as well. He redeems that as well. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:20] Speaker B: 100. And that's why Paul says to live as Christ, to die is what to die is gain. Because the worst thing a man can do to me is kill me. Well, guess what? That's actually to my benefit. That's actually my blessings. Yeah. [00:21:30] Speaker A: Right. Oh, man. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Paul lived that life of trust. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Yeah. He really did. It's so. So incredible. Yeah. What. What does trusting God mean to you? I already kind of shared. I already said it's everything. It's like, it's. It's so difficult, but it's everything. [00:21:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:51] Speaker A: I don't always want to. I still. [00:21:53] Speaker B: No. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Can lean on myself, but it's everything. And it's so weird to even say it that way, but that's. That's the reality because there's still, this battle, it's really a battle of the mind. And that's why there's this renewal of the mind. And that's why every day it's even just waking up and being okay. God, I'm excited about what you have for me. I'm stepping into trust today. [00:22:15] Speaker B: Which leads right to the verse that I texted you hours ago that I just looked at today. Romans 8, 6. Setting the mind on the spirit is life and peace. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Right. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Setting the mind on the spirit is life. Life. [00:22:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:35] Speaker A: It's so good. And that's where I'm at, too. And just. I'm recognizing. I think a lot of our wisdom really comes from looking back and like that. What do you call that? Losing the word. [00:22:48] Speaker B: I don't know why I lost hindsight and foresight. [00:22:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So that hindsight, vision. That's the word I was missing. Thanks for giving that to me. I think that's. Looking back, I'm actually recognizing that that gravitational pull of God's love is becoming greater than the gravitational pull of my flesh. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:09] Speaker A: And it doesn't mean that the flesh still doesn't creep in. [00:23:12] Speaker B: Nope. [00:23:13] Speaker A: It just means that even that I'm not living in that shame any longer. [00:23:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:18] Speaker A: So I don't just dwell on that and say, oh, I screwed up and I just. Such a failure. And I just. Yeah. [00:23:25] Speaker B: Wow. [00:23:25] Speaker A: Man. It's an incredible place. So the. The mind, really. And that. That's what I loved about that verse. I mean, there are things that I pulled out of that verse that. And the mind was one of them. It starts. And it actually mentions the mind twice. So it is this renewal of the mind. It is a battle within the mind. Because living the Christian life isn't about becoming something. It's actually about maturing into who I already am. So it's all about. Yeah. Taking who I am and now mentally understanding and trusting. This is who I am. And live from there. [00:23:57] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Such an incredible thing. But, yeah, life and peace, man. Yeah. I feel so much more at peace just walking in trust. And it doesn't mean I have it all figured out. It doesn't mean I know what's next. [00:24:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:10] Speaker A: But I can be at peace with that. Wow. What a beautiful picture. So, yeah. What is stepping into trust done for us? I think changed everything. [00:24:23] Speaker B: That's right. [00:24:24] Speaker A: I know it has for me. So I guess that's our 2 cents for today. Maybe it's worth a little bit more than that.