Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: And we welcome you to let's Talk Life. This is our 31st episode, and it comes to the first week of June. I can't believe it's already June.
Things are heating up here in Florida. But I'm fired up.
I'm fired up for what's happening around us all the time.
So, Car, how's. How was your week?
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, that's a great. A great phrase of fired up. It's. It's exciting when God gives you the eyes to see his perspective on life, on circumstances, on family, just on everything. And it's exciting, right? It's. It's. It's that surrender and trust of saying, all right, Father, this is. This is. I'm giving it to you, and I'm not going to try and take it back. You know, I'm giving it to you for whatever you want, however you want me to walk through it. But. But give me the eyes to see. And. And I think that's the beautiful part of life.
Again, it doesn't mean we're not going to go through tough times or pain or suffering, but we. We're going to see his redemption in it. We're going to see his.
His restoration in it. And so, yeah, so that's. That's kind of where I am with your being fired up and excitement, and it just changes. Changes your mindset. And so, man, but. But talking about life, man, what's your. What's your past seven days been like?
[00:01:30] Speaker B: It's been crazy.
I was up in Michigan for seven days.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: So Sunday. This Sunday. So we just got back yesterday, late morning.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: And so it was beautiful up in Michigan.
One of the days it was raining. And like, the one thing definitely that I don't miss is a cold rain.
Like, it's. It's raining here today, but it's like, ah, it doesn't matter if I get wet because it's. It's nice out.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: But then, yeah, for. For a true northerner, it gets a little hot down here, too.
But, man, yeah, this. This last week, I mean, I typically, if I make a trip to Michigan, I try to connect with everybody that I possibly can.
And I have a lot of pastor friends that I've been just journeying with and.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: That's. Right.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Obviously all my family's up there. Right then my previous ministry, I mean, I have all kinds of people that I could connect with, but it's like knowing that I was going up there with family, the whole family, I was like, I can't be gone every second. Running around. So I had no agenda, no real plan.
And I think that's really where we should maybe operate from all the time.
Because talk about just an agenda list planned and, and how God really can, can work in that. It was.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Is that new for you?
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. Because I'm a very detailed person. I'm a list maker. It's kind of funny. I'm really, I'm like a blend of my mom and my dad. My dad is that, is that note taking type person. My mom is kind of free. They had a big argument. They just, they just, they just had their 50th wedding anniversary on Saturday. We, Uncle David, we celebrated on, we celebrated on, on Friday, but they had an argument on their honeymoon about, about how to put the knife into the peanut butter.
My dad like skims it carefully from the top so that it looks nice and it goes down. My mom just digs in and so just talk about personality differences and it's right. Funny because I'm kind of a blend.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: Of the two.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: Where I'm very detailed, but then I'm also very artsy because just really neat.
The makeup of how, how God designs us.
So I see. See a little bit of both of, of them in me in that respect.
But yeah, praise God. 50 years and what a, what a life, you know, of, of just a testimony and sharing their life with so many other people, but just being a testimony to their own kids too.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Because it hasn't been easy, you know, with my oldest sister and just still to this day, 50 years later, still having her to take care of and back into dialysis right now, and so many difficult things. So it's great to be able to connect and of course see family and celebrate May birthdays, which we have like five of them, and. And then to celebrate their, their marriage as well for 50 years.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Oh, man. Yeah. What do I go into?
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Right, right. Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna come back to that. But, but just a reminder that, man, that we are like a product of our families. And so we do carry with us things from our mom, things from our dad, things from our mom's side, things from our dad's side. We pass those things on as we are married and we pass those things on to our children. As one pastor put it to me last week, he said, you know, I'm understanding that, yeah, we have my flesh and, and then her flesh, but there's also like our flesh, you know, the things, the habits or the things that we've sort of mangled together as a couple that I had never really actually thought of or heard about. And so just. That was just an interesting statement that you make. But, but when we. We think. When we think it's all up to us, we gotta. You go to Michigan. You were there for 40 years, 40 plus years of your life. You were there in local church ministry over two decades. So if it's up to you, you got to fill your schedule with all these meetings, because it's all up to you. And so there's no room for margin, there's no room for God appointments. There's no room for divine encounters, divine collisions. It's all. You got to do everything.
And when we're not operating out of that, when we're operating out of rest, when we're operating out of trust.
And so maybe even, like, how did you see that this week? Because you kind of alluded to it. So how did you see that this week?
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Like I said, like, where do I even start?
You know? Like, there were just so. So many. Just neat things, connecting, of course, with family, having conversations even with family.
The. The path book, you know, that we're. We're both going through right now.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: Beautiful.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Like, I got there, I didn't have this plan, but I have. You know, I just went right online.
I was sitting in my sister's couch there. I just went online on my phone to Amazon. I ordered five copies, and I gave them all away this week. One to my family, and then I gave them all to. To other ministry f friends up there.
And I just thought, yeah, when. When God stirs, when God says, yeah, do this, you just. Just do it. And. And the results are in his hands. You know, it's not up to me to. To tell people where they need to be or what they need to do. It's just, this is my journey. This is how God is working in my life. I just want to share this with you.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: It's been. That was just a neat little thing, but like I said, I didn't have an agenda. Typically I do when I go up there to try to connect with everybody that I can. Every pastor that I've worked with, every. You know, and this time I just didn't. And so I kind of left it a little bit more open for. For Ena, my wife, to be able to connect with some people. And since we have the kids, then I could just take the older boys, you know, to a park or something while she took the baby and met with some. Some other friends that she hasn't really been able to connect with and, you know, see for these last number of months. But it's been almost 10 months, I think, since we moved here.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: So.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: And, and I'll just, I won't dig in too much to where Ena's at. And she's on her own journey.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: And we're on this journey together and we're all on our own journey. Right. To really understand all this. But I think, but I think in, in some of Venus own words, I think it was very healing for her too.
I think coming out of.
Coming out of just thinking that we need to pursue God in our own strength to now stepping into realizing, no, this is who I am in Christ.
There's just, there's so much just peace and healing that comes from that.
And I think there's. I always relate it to, and I think a lot of other people do to the steps, the stages of grieving.
And I think there's a little bit of frustration and, and then there's this, I don't know, there's. I think there's always been this mentality of we need to argue our point and we, we need to get it across. And now there's this kind of, this, this health and this healing of. No, I don't, I don't need to prove to you anything. I'm just going to be who I am.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: And so I think that was just very healing for, for Ina as well.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: And one of the things that she said, because she was the one setting up meetings and to be honest, like, she's, it's. She had, she has her friends, she has the people that she's close to and of course she's going to set up those meetings with those people easily, but she was setting up meetings with other people too. That was just like beautiful in my mind because it's not her personality really.
So.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: So she, and she concluded it with, you know, I just want to love those that are around me.
And I thought this is so sweet because these are, these are words that I've really gleaned from a couple of different people.
Wayne Jacobson is one of them. And I'm going to pull some stuff out of one of his books. And in fact, it's this, this very book that actually the subtitle Discover the Lost Art of One Anothering. Like just being in. Up, just doing life with people.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: Yeah. We call it, we call it Ministry of Presence or, you know.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: Or just coming alongside. Go ahead.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: I ran into Another guy that actually just. He said, get low. Get low with one another.
That's the way that he described it.
It's so good.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: That's really what it's all about. I mean, and it reminds me, too, of Frank. So I was just. I was just excited. These are the two authors and pastors that were ministering to me, and here now my wife is actually saying these same words that they're saying. Yes. Frank Friedman said he was interviewed and asked what he's going to do next after he kind of retired from church work and is stepping into a new season.
Like, what do you. What's the plan? And he just says, you know, I just. I just want to be the most comfortable person in the room.
And I just thought that was really. So it's been neat because Pastor Brett, who I'm under here, I go to his church and.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Working alongside of him. I got a meeting with him today just to talk church life. And what is this?
[00:10:53] Speaker A: All right.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: What are we doing?
And so it's just been so sweet. He actually has a lot to say about Frank, and it's been really neat to get to know Frank from a.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: Because he worked under Frank for a couple different seasons in his life, and he was the youth pastor under Frank, and he called him back, but he. He called him back to Louisiana when Frank started pastoring there. And Pastor Brett said, nope, I'm not coming to work under Hugh. He says, Frank Friedman was the most legalistic son of a gun. That's the way that he describes it. And it's just. It was just so funny to hear this. But now to know Frank, also to know. Know that. Right. That he did come and minister under him as a youth pastor after he really just explained. And. And Frank is the one that actually brought Pastor Brett and his wife Donna into really understanding grace, really understanding Christ as life.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: And so it's just the journeying that is all happening and the connections that are all happening. So I'm just so excited that my wife is catching that vision.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Without me having to be the one to. You need to understand it. You need to get it right. It's just being at peace and just waiting. Yeah.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: It's a different way to live. You know, it's the conversation I told you earlier of a guy last week who's trying to get grace across to these group of pastors and saying, I don't want to pick a fight. Don't want to pick a fight.
That's the mentality. That's the old Mentality.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: It is.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: And yet Paul even says gently, instructor, with the hope that it is God who brings to repentance.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Right. Right. When I love. What Frank Friedman says is he says to be defiant. And that sounds like, oh, this is his legalistic self coming back up. But he's like. But he concludes that be defiant on the inside.
Like, you can know where you stand and rest in who you are, but you don't have to prove your point to everybody. Just be defiant on the inside and stand on the principles that you know and understand and stand on who you are. It's. It's Ephesians 6, really. It's. This is who you are. So now stand. And it's a beautiful thing that we can.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: It goes back to identity. That, that, that, that shaped. I think every single one of our episodes is that we're either working for or working from. We either striving for identity or we are coming out of identity. Ready. Ready.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Like whatever God, whatever you have for us.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: But we're no longer trying to earn it. We're. No, we're no longer trying to prove we're worthy of it. We're not trying to.
We're already. We've fully received everything in Christ. Second Peter 1. We have everything we need for life and godliness.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Everything.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: And so now we can live it out.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah, we can live it out. It's. It's the overflow. And now, like that verse two, I forget where it's even found. Rivers of living water.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Are flowing out of us. It's like that makes so much more sense now because before it was always kind of this up and down. Ah, it's really exciting right now. But then it's, you know, and I think that's every Monday, right. For a pastor, it's like you've had.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: This spiritual high and big time, big time.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: There's this, there's this plumbing and depression on Monday.
And it's just. That's the reality not just for pastors, but I think for everybody just walking right in life and trying to.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: How about this? This for the average churchgoer, Sunday morning as they hang their head in shame of what they didn't do this week. And then for every pract, Sunday afternoon, Monday morning, when they think about, oh, I should have said this or I should have said that, or so and so wasn't there, or so and so said this about me. And so we just, we just. We're constantly in that cycle of flesh, right? Positive flesh or, or negative flesh. It's still Stinking flesh, as our buddy Joe Campos calls it.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But I love it, boy. I mean, like, I had new, I guess I would say, reconnections with people that I just ran into randomly. Stronger connections with people, like I share with you, too. So your son is going to play baseball at Grace.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: Right? Right.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: And, yeah, And I have a. A student that went through my ministry who's been in going to Grace for, I don't know, the last three years at least. And next year, he's going to be basically like the chaplain. I don't know what the actual title.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: But he's going to be the chaplain of the baseball team that your son is going to be on.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:15:28] Speaker B: I just think this is so, so sweet.
The full circle around just how God, you know, connects. And so, it's just so, so exciting. And this reconnection, we're at an open house, just saying hi to some people and saying congratulations to a graduate. And it connected us to a playground because our boys want to go play, you know, the whole time we're there, like, can we go to the playground? Right. They finally saw the playground, then it was like, ah, there's no turning back.
So we end up at the playground for. And we planned on it anyways, but we go to the playground and we're just hanging out. And here walks a couple that we have knew for many years, but haven't seen for, like five years, maybe longer. I don't even know. Moved away and moved even further away, and now they're back and. And it was so refreshing.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: To actually connect with them. And. And here I'm like, I have this ministry opportunity to share a little bit about, and all of a sudden they're thinking the same thing while we have this ministry. We're both speaking the same language. And I was just like, this is really amazing.
So we. We made sure we had each other's information. Right. We both did. And we just said, we just need to stay in touch, work together. He travels around. He's like, we're coming down to Florida at some point. I said, connect, let's let me know.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Right?
[00:16:48] Speaker B: So it's just so beautiful, all the different things that were happening, all because I didn't have an agenda. You know, had. I had an agenda, I probably wouldn't have been right in any of these places.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: Right. So. So you're telling me, Zach, that God was able to do things without you making your plans?
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Because that's what we say. Well, if I don't do this, then God can't do it, you know, if we. If it's all up to us.
Right. Pompous, prideful.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Arrogance, nuts.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: So, yeah. And then, you know, a wild story. I just had a conversation on the phone with a guy from Tampa, which is like an hour and 20 minutes maybe from me. And his pastor gave him a reference to some other guy, ended up talking to a guy in Tennessee who gave him a reference, which was me.
And I was just like, how does this all even happen?
But just another opportunity to just minister to somebody. And I was just. I was just sharing a little bit of light that I was just saying, this is what we do. As I walk people through and counsel people, this is where I'm at. This is what I'm doing. I'm not like a certified counselor by the state. I can't accept your insurance. Like, so there's so many aspects to it that's like, this shouldn't work. And yet he's like, you're. You're speaking some stuff that I feel like is so, so much what I need. I've been through therapy, I've been through counseling. We've been to marriage counseling. We've done all these different things, and nothing is working right. I said, well, the, the, the reality is it's not me that's going to change you. It is. It is the Holy Spirit that's going to work in your life to help you. And I'm just here to equip you to know who you are.
Wow.
In Christ.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: So he said. He said, you know, born again at this date. I know. You know, but. And I'm. And that's what he was alluding to is I'm striving. I'm doing everything I can to plug into church to get my. Pick up my kid and bring her to church and all these different things. And I just was like, that. Those are all great things, but, you know, life is Christ.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: And, yeah, I'm going to equip you to know who you are in Christ. And then you can go to church. And you can not just go because you need to be filled, but you're going to go because you can help fill someone else up and you can be the ministry to other people. So it's just so neat. That was a phone call that I. Or, yeah, a phone call and a voicemail that I got while I was in Michigan. I just got back to him today.
I got another text while I was gone of a guy that I met with. Talk about just random it's kind of along the same lines. I was just. I'm. I'm volunteering for Youth for Christ. And this guy was too. He's a snowbird. So he. Who was leaving back up a month later. But we met, and he's like, I need to talk to you. So he set up an appointment. We met for like, three times. He's dealing with depression. He sends me a text this last week saying, I was thanking God for you in my prayers this morning because you've introduced me to who I am in Christ.
Wow. And it's given me so much freedom, and I have to be so, so up and down in my depression.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: I can just rest in who I am in Christ.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: And it's like, yeah, I'm. I'm not making these things, nor could I make these things happen. No, it's only the work of God.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: It's a work of God that he is a mystery.
You know, that, that Paul himself said, who can know the mind of God? Who can. Who's his counselor, who. Who can explain his. His ways? And it's like, I love resting in that. I love. I love living in that mystery of God. You are so. Ephesians 3:20. He's able to do more than we can ask or even imagine.
He can do more than we can ask or.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: Wow.
Even imagine. That's. That's so awesome. I love that because we can. So powerful.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: Yeah. We can think and imagine a lot of things. And it's like he's. He does greater things than that.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: Even. Even greater.
Right.
So, man, I, I, this, this last week, I mean, I haven't, I haven't. Of course I skipped church. We're traveling Sunday morning to Sunday morning.
I skipped out on, you know, just a. A normal routine and a normal schedule. And sometimes, you know, in the past, I definitely would have just felt like, boy, I'm just out of sorts.
But now I'm stepping into just recognizing that, no, I'm right where I'm supposed to be.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: And it's so such a great thing. And this is where I come to Wayne Jacobson's book, Authentic Relationships is what it's called.
And he just, He. It's a little segment that he titles fellow travelers. And the bottom line is this, that Jesus invited us not to live as competitors, but as fellow travelers. And just think about this. I think most of our Christian lives and going to church and serving in church, whatever it might look like for, for any of us, it's all been about competition.
And we don't necessarily see it that way, but it's exactly what it is. Like, boy, I wish I would have made the choices this guy's making because then I wouldn't have had this and this or this in my life. And so, so we're always setting ourselves up against and comparing ourselves to other people.
When God really doesn't see it that way, like we're, we have this mentality that is, well, as long as I'm better than 90% of these other people, then I'm okay. Like, God's going to grave on a grade us on a curve. And it's just, it's just not the way. So I love this is what he says to start the whole section off. Competition subtly weaves its way into our friendships whenever, whenever we think we have to earn God's approval by our own will and effort. And all I could think is, yeah, I've grown up in the church and I saw that competition happening. I've served in the church and I saw that competition competition happening.
And it was within me too. Like, I saw other people that. It's like, man, I wish I would have have the popularity of that kid. You know, when I was a teenager, I wish I would have made these choices that this guy's making that this intern or other staff member is making or whatever.
But the reality is my story is my story.
And, and even these guys that are coming to me for counseling, they, it's like God knows. Well, you've been through the ringer yourself when it comes to divorce and, and the hurts, right? And God has sending me guys that are separated right now and they're desperate and it's, that's, it's a beautiful place to be, is in desperation because then you're, you have no choice but to trust God and that's really what he wants from us all together.
But I just thought this was so, so beautiful. Like I said, I didn't spend a lot of time reading.
I just spent a lot of time just doing life with other people with specifically family, with fellow travelers, my family with fellow travelers. And so this was the one thing that I read throughout the whole week. And it just, it just was something that I was chewing on and thinking on all week long. I just thought this is so beautiful. It's exactly what's happening. It's exactly what this whole week has been about. And it's in reality, it's kind of what our, our whole ministry kind of is right now too, is just, that's right, just kind of journeying that's right. Just kind of journeying with other people. It's been such a. Such a great thing because Jesus invited us not to live as competitors, but as fellow.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: Yeah, beautiful.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: So let's just. Let's just travel together, journey together, live life together.
Such good stuff. It's what let's talk life is all about, right?
Amen. Over and out.
