Ep. 51 - The Flesh, The To-Do List

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You know, Paul is writing to people who aren't in the flesh, but they're in the spirit. He's talking to believers. And so it's not just this to do list of things that you need to live up to and you need to do. It's actually stating a fact that's already true about you. That's the kind of. The conclusion. We can start with the conclusion, because this is what we try to emphasize all the time, is that there is a finished work of Christ. There is not a to do list to become more and more like Christ. So let's rest in that reality. [00:00:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And I would say in the. In the airspace of Christendom, which is a John Elrich phrase, there's not a lot of talk about this. Zach. No, of. Of who. Who I am in Christ. That. That. It's more of. Here's a list of what to do. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Hello and welcome. We're back talking Life. This is let's Talk Life podcast. In our reality as believers, praise God. Jesus died on the cross for our sins. [00:00:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:56] Speaker A: And as Romans 5 would say much more. The rest of the good news is that Jesus came to give us and is in us as this incredible, abundant life. So here we are to talk that life in Christ. And my cousin, my cohort, Carl. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:14] Speaker A: How you doing? [00:01:15] Speaker B: Doing well, man. Woman 6 For that, we would walk in the newness of life. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Just so many great things that we can talk about every single week. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:26] Speaker B: About Christ, the reality of Christ in us. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So what's available? So good. So good. And so much of. I don't know. I don't know if this is good or bad, but I think a lot of what we talk about or what comes out is, boy, this is how I got it wrong before. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:44] Speaker A: And, yeah, I don't think it's a bad thing because I think that's the journey, and I think that's where a lot of people are at. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:51] Speaker A: So. [00:01:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:52] Speaker A: So it's not criticism. It's. It's right. It's an assessment, not this disapproval. So that's really the. The difference. Or maybe it's the. The big difference is just that it's all out of respect. Like, it's okay. It's okay where you're at on your journey. [00:02:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:10] Speaker A: I love. Yeah. I see a lot of, you know, in being in Florida, there's a lot of ret. Hired folk. And I was in. Oh, yeah, I was in a store. I was in a store here in Venice and an older guy walked in with A T shirt. And Anna, it said, I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. So it's nice. And when you're in the rooms of grace that you can actually disagree with things and it's okay because we're all journeying through this stuff and it's. It's a joy actually to Even still. It's a joy to be together even though we might still disagree on stuff. And it's. Yeah, I've never experienced that before. It's. It always just created tension and like we had to outperform each other and what it's like. Yeah, no more of that. [00:03:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:03] Speaker A: And. [00:03:04] Speaker B: And coming out of context and situations where there was like one person that was clearly in charge. And I think most people in ministry that might not be unique to me or unique to you, whether it's a pastor, a board member, you know, a chairman, a treasure. What. Whoever it is. [00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:23] Speaker B: That there's. That there's someone that. And it's man. I just. I just love the idea that humility. Humility is what attracts God's grace. Right. Can I. Can I listen? [00:03:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:33] Speaker B: I be quick to listen. Can I be slow to speak? Can I. Can I seek to understand rather than seek to be understood like. Like just all those. All those beautiful truths in the New Testament of one anothering. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:47] Speaker B: And. And I think that you're right. I think it's unique. It's unique to. I mean, think about this. Like, if you and I disagree on something, let's just go our own way. Yeah. Let's just go our own way. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:57] Speaker B: And we can't. We can't even talk about it. We can't even still love each other despite disagreements. That's not what grace is. [00:04:05] Speaker A: No. Yeah. So. So right on. It's so good. And today we're kind of continuing on. I don't know if we call it a series because I'm not sure what we'll go from here. We've been talking. Last week we talked about the flesh, and today I titled it to the flesh. And specifically this to do list. And I wanted to start off just kind of with this question and maybe we can ponder our journey through this is how important is identity. Because I feel like, you know, the to do list and I think you have some stuff to even share on that. Yeah. Where we get our identity from is. Is very, very crucial. And what, what I've shared before, I think even a little bit last week is am I living for God or am I living from my identity in Christ? And really where you place yourself in that context of thinking is it shapes everything. So. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Right. So I, I want to hear the to do list before I say anything. So do you want to, do you want to like, just talk about that for a second? [00:05:04] Speaker A: It really comes out of this trust for today. So it's. [00:05:08] Speaker B: We'll wait. You want to wait there. [00:05:09] Speaker A: I don't know. I can kind of sum it up. You know, Paul is writing to people who aren't in the flesh, but they're in the spirit. It's talking to believers. So it's not just this to do list of things that you need to live up to and you need to do. It's actually stating a fact that's already true about you. That's the kind of. The conclusion. We can start with the conclusion because we've, this is what we try to emphasize all the time, is that there is a finished work of Christ. There is not a to do list to become more and more like Christ. So let's rest in that reality. [00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And I would say in the, in the airspace of Christendom, which is a John Elrods phrase. Christendom. Trying to just, you know, just every, every whatever. There's not a lot of talk about this, Zach. No, of, of who, who I am in Christ. That, that it's more of. Here's a list of what to do. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Right. To become. Yes. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Fill in the blank. Closer to God, more godly, more righteous, more whole. Like, doesn't that sound merit based? [00:06:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's exactly how it's been taken. And it's, it's really how we've been conditioned to think. And that's what got us into the performance mode and into the get, put the mask on, hide, cover up, don't be real, don't be honest. All that, it all stems from that. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:30] Speaker A: And it doesn't, it doesn't work. So the reality is it's futile. It's never worked. It's never going to work. And it's not supposed to work. Yeah. So Jesus is saying, trust me and wow, that's not easy. But that is the journey is stepping into really trusting God and others. With me. [00:06:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really good. You know, I, I just go back to. You sit around a room with guys and it's really, it's really like, so if I don't know you, it's like, what's your name? Or most of the time it's what I Do. Right. So. So my name is fill in the blank. You know, my name is Carl and I pastor this. Or my name is Carl and I do this and my name is Carl and I am a Mason or a contract. [00:07:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Or whatever. Isn't that crazy that we define. I'm a coach. We define ourselves by what I do. Performance. [00:07:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:30] Speaker B: Not who I am. [00:07:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, then once you identify yourself as a teacher or as a. Let's just stick with pastor, then the question is, well, okay, so how big is your congregation? And what, what do you do for missions and where do you know? All of a sudden it's all becomes this. Yeah. This measuring stick of, okay, yeah, your church is this big. And so, so I can respect you this much. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:07:55] Speaker A: Or, or. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Or if your church is small, then I don't need to talk to you. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:59] Speaker B: Because you have nothing to offer. [00:08:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:01] Speaker B: It really is crazy. [00:08:02] Speaker A: It really is. Totally. So. Yeah. How important is identity? I think it's crucial. You know, knowing my identity in Christ is crucial. And I think that even this has been dumbed down because I think I. I mean, I've heard it said that identity isn't. Isn't the most important thing. It's like, okay, well, maybe it's not the most important thing, but it certainly is up there in importance because how I live my life is going to stem from where I'm at in all this. Yeah. [00:08:33] Speaker B: Right. Am I working for it or am I working from it? Am I trying to achieve it or has it already been given to me and now I'm living it out? [00:08:41] Speaker A: Huge differences. Yes. Right. Well, if you, if you want true healing in your life, if you want true freedom, if you want. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Real victory in your life. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:51] Speaker A: It's not going to come through effort. It's going to come from knowing who I am in Christ, trusting that reality, and then the overflow of my doing is going to come from that. It's never going to work the other way around. See, we've tried it. Many people have tried it. Everybody has tried it, and it's not working. If I don't know my identity, I will be left to work for my identity. And that's essentially, I think, what you have. It's a big part of Christendom, to use the word that he used earlier. That's. That's a big part of the whole Christian atmosphere of what we think we need to do, is we need to work for our identity when the reality is it's already done. Right. [00:09:32] Speaker B: I think that's why, that's why, you know, you think about solitarsis. Right. So, so Paul, towards the end of his life just says all those things that I used to put my stock in, all those things I used to use as my identifiers. [00:09:44] Speaker A: It's nothing. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Yeah, forget it. [00:09:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:47] Speaker B: And he uses a lot stronger language. He does, just to say all that. It's right. For the sake of knowing Christ, experiencing Christ, of who he is in Christ. Yeah, that's, that's, that's where his, that's where he hung his hat. I mean, that's his, that's his identifier. I'm a child of God. I'm a saint. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:09] Speaker B: I'm called by God. I mean, that was, that was almost how he starts every. It is letter as well. [00:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Talking about himself, but also even calling the people, the believers he's writing to. He's saying, listen, saints. He, he refers to them as saints. And that, that is the journey together is us writing, reminding each other who we are. Because yes, we do have flesh and yes, we do have lies that we believe. And so there's just this constant reminder all the time of going back to, okay, this is how I feel, but this is, this is my, my real present reality of who I am. [00:10:45] Speaker B: No, that's good. Yeah, that's really good. [00:10:47] Speaker A: I mean, otherwise I'm going to read the Scriptures just as that to do list and I can pull out of scriptures all kinds of things that it's telling me to do, or at least that's the way that I'm reading it because. Sure. Because the only way that I've been really conditioned to read it and understand it rather than actually standing firm. Wow. And I love even that, that whole idea, what is it that we're standing firm in? It's like you put on all this armor, you know, in Ephesians, chapter six, and we're told to stand firm in these truths, but it's not like even that. It's not just doing that. We have to. The doing is simply trusting. The doing is simply standing in the truth. [00:11:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:28] Speaker A: And fixed and firm and just knowing. [00:11:31] Speaker B: Yes, yes, all that. Yeah. [00:11:33] Speaker A: So, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, if I'm not really living out of my true identity, it's not going to be encouraging. It's actually going to be condemning. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Think about that. Say that again. [00:11:44] Speaker A: If I'm not living. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Say that again. [00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah, thing out of my true identity. Nothing about the Bible or the teaching or the preaching or anything is going to be encouraging. It's going to Be condemning. [00:11:55] Speaker B: No, no. And that's, that's right there. That's what we do. We live in condemnation. Like we literally live in condemnation based on behavior, performance. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Was there great effort or little effort? [00:12:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Striving or not striving. [00:12:11] Speaker A: Right. Well. [00:12:12] Speaker B: And that's what we think the Christian life is. Go ahead. [00:12:15] Speaker A: We're left asking this question in fear really, of have I stuff. And that's a sad place to just. That's not rest, that's not joy, that's not abundant life. That's. That's all the opposite of the fruit of the spirit. [00:12:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:32] Speaker A: And it's. And it's wild, but it's exactly what we do. At the top of the list, we might be the most loving people in the world. For other people, we don't realize that what we're bringing them is still condemnation, but we're not intentionally trying to do that. But the one that's condemns us the most is usually ourselves. I condemn myself more than anyone else is going to condemn me. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:54] Speaker A: But it's still condemnation. And so I love true face. Yeah. Going through some of the, the high trust stuff that you've been through and I'm going through presently. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So good. [00:13:04] Speaker A: What is condemnation? This is how one of the videos, and I'm sorry, I don't know who it was that did the video, but he explained condemnation as this. It's giving someone an identity based on their behavior. That's condemnation. Giving someone an identity based on their behavior. And so we do this, of course, to ourselves the most. You know it. This is the reality, though. We're not children of God because of our behavior. No, no, we're children because we're born anew. We have this, this new life, a new birth. Yeah, we're born, we're born again. So identity is all by birth, it's not by behavior. And the gospel really eliminates behavior and performance. Performance as any sort of basis for identity. And. But these are revolutionary things. It's like for Paul to first of all say, hey, listen up, saints. Us saints. [00:13:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:57] Speaker A: To say grace and peace to you. Those, these were all to the people he was writing to originally. These were all brand new things to them. [00:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:14:05] Speaker A: And oddly, 2,000 years plus later, they're still kind of foreign to so many people that are, that are in Christ. And that's one of the things, I think that baffles me. I don't know how you feel about that. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Well, it's, it's. I just give me a list. Just Give me a list. Right? Give me a to do list. [00:14:23] Speaker A: That's true. It is true. And. [00:14:26] Speaker B: And it's all. It's all religion, you know, it's what I can do. If we find ourselves in the hamster wheel trap, Right. Where we can't get out. [00:14:35] Speaker A: Well. And it's like we. We kind of like the hamster wheel. I don't know why. Because we. We feel like we're doing something. We feel like we're a part of something. I. I kind of noted it even like this in my notes. [00:14:47] Speaker B: This. [00:14:48] Speaker A: This heavily influential belief system that's in place today, convincing people that we need to be smacked upside the head with the truth, and I must continue to come back to be smacked upside the head in order for me to overcome or to say no to sin. That's like the prevailing mentality. [00:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:08] Speaker A: That. [00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:09] Speaker A: That really exists in Christian subculture. And. Yeah, it's false. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:16] Speaker A: It's not what we need. And it's not working. And the reality is it sounds good, and it seems like it's working, but it's working just like the law is working. I've said this many times. I don't know if I've said it on here, but I can follow the Ten Commandments and it will be good for me, but it won't bring life. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Ooh, that's good. [00:15:36] Speaker A: That's good. [00:15:36] Speaker B: So. So following those things, hey, those are good things to do. [00:15:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:40] Speaker B: In the sense of safety. You're not harming others, but you're not transformed. [00:15:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:46] Speaker B: There's no life. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't. The only way the law brings you to Christ is realizing that you can't do the law. [00:15:55] Speaker B: You can't. That you can't. You can't. Right. [00:15:58] Speaker A: And that's the purpose of the law. So. And I think that, you know, it sounds. It sounds so good. And we accept this. This idea. We sit under this mindset. I think we did for all those years, you know, that's all we knew. It's all we knew to do. Right. But I think a lot of it is because we are. We're stuck in Romans 7, and we can never get to Romans 8, Romans 7. Romans 7 is where, Paul. [00:16:20] Speaker B: We can't even get. We can't even get to the end of Romans 7, go, yes. No, no, that's true. [00:16:25] Speaker A: Because it is. It's like. I don't know if it's the last verse. I guess I have it in front of me. It is the last verse. Verse 25, verse 24 of Romans 7 says, Is Paul declaring, like, with an exclamation point, what a wretched man that I am. But the very next verse is like, giving you so much hope. But there's. There's this purpose, there's this life through Jesus Christ and praise be to God. And it's like we skip right over that and we just kind of. We're stuck on verse 24, believing that I'm just a wretched man, and it's just a false notion. So even going back to last week's discussion, you know, there's this poll of religion because I'm so bad, I need to change. I need to do better. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:07] Speaker A: So I'm pulled back into that mindset, and it sounds good. It makes me feel good to be on that hamster wheel. I feel like I'm really doing something. But it's all just kind of the basis of religion. And truth is trusted, not through my feelings, because my feelings are going to lie to me. It just. Truth is the truth. And am I. Am I trusting that truth? Am I believing that truth? Am I living from there? Otherwise, we're just living as these condemned sinners. And here you have Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation for those that are in Christ. [00:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. What do you know about condemnation, Zach? [00:17:44] Speaker A: Condemnation? Let me find it. Did I share this already? [00:17:47] Speaker B: You were sharing it with me off camera. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:17:51] Speaker B: I thought it was really good. [00:17:52] Speaker A: I might have already read this, but I'll cover it again. I don't remember. It's hard to know between our conversation and our recording condom being the last. [00:17:59] Speaker B: 51 or just now. Yeah. [00:18:01] Speaker A: I don't know. Condemnation is giving someone an identity based on their behavior. Is that what you're referring to? [00:18:09] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. [00:18:10] Speaker A: And that's what we do to ourselves. It's what we do to others, even because we're not. [00:18:16] Speaker B: And it's what others do to us. [00:18:17] Speaker A: It totally. [00:18:18] Speaker B: So then. Then we. Then we believe it. [00:18:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Good. Go ahead. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Well, I'm just kind of processing it all out because it's like nobody desires to be a condemning person like you and I, even as pastors, we weren't. Our intention was not to condemn people. We wanted to give them hope and purpose and. [00:18:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:36] Speaker A: We wanted to love on them. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:38] Speaker A: But this was the only way we knew how, was to shape up and do better. [00:18:44] Speaker B: Plug, plug you in that's another one. [00:18:46] Speaker A: For another day Plug, plug you in, yeah. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Plug into our church yeah. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:54] Speaker A: I just. I just. [00:18:54] Speaker B: So much. [00:18:55] Speaker A: Wow. I heard that recently. That it's like, boy, we want to, you know, attend church and be a part of stuff, but I feel like we can't attend anywhere without them sucking us in and saying, you need to be involved. You attend here, you need to be involved in this and this. And here, here are your opportunities. And, and I think that if, if we just allowed people to connect spiritually with each other, the natural overflow would be, boy, I really, really want to be a part of something, sir. I really want. How can I help in this area? But because there's such an over emphasis on, hey, you're here now, we need you to be a part of this. You should make sure you come to Bible study. And all of a sudden you have to be a part of all these things. It's, it's not a natural overflow. And so I think, right. Going back to even the wretched man that I am, why is Paul saying this? It's the pole of religion is what I was getting at. The reality is, yeah, Paul was saying that out of his before he was in Christ. That's kind of the bottom line. I mean, that's, that's the transition. That's the difference. He's proclaiming these, these truths. And I pulled some of this out of BibleQuestions.com because I thought it's always so interesting to get some of this. But he was still in this achieving righteousness through the law mindset. And so he came to a point of really exclaiming, this wretched man that I am. It's actually recognized Paul is coming to a point, point in his life where we all have to get to that he's helpless and he can't do this on his own. And this is what he's trying to explain is that there is this other way to live and it's so much better. And so we can rest, we don't have to live. And that's one of the questions I threw out there. Are you as a believer, this is a question for all believers. Are you living in peace or are you living in fear and condemnation? And I don't know. I think most are not living in peace. Look at the church today, and most people that attend, they're not really living at peace. They're really afraid of, have I done enough? Going back to that question, that's the box church mentality is throw me on the hamster wheel and let me go. [00:21:10] Speaker B: And I would even add something that you really identify with and say all the time, am I living in peace? And I would even maybe Rephrase it a secondary way. Am I living in rest? Am I living in rest of Christ in me? [00:21:27] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. I love that. It's so true. [00:21:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Am I living in rest? Am I. Or am I trying to produce something? Right. Am I trying to produce. Am I trying to earn? Am I trying to receive what I've already been given? [00:21:42] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. I'm trying to even process. I know I've had that conversation with these group of people on this high trust leader thing, and I shared with them on a video call together that I'm at rest. And then in some of our discussion online afterwards, I had to say, now listen, just because I am at rest doesn't mean I always live at rest. [00:22:04] Speaker B: That's right. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Right. So, like. [00:22:05] Speaker B: That's right. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Like my response to things is not always at rest, but in the conclusion of. Even if I completely blew it, the conclusion is I'm not living in shame over that mistake either. And. Right. And I can just. I can get over that and move on. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Because it. Because it doesn't define you. You're not identified by that. [00:22:28] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:29] Speaker B: Going back to identity, that's why it's so important to know who am I? Who am I? Who is God? Who does he say I am? [00:22:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:22:36] Speaker B: It's so important, so valuable. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:22:39] Speaker B: For lasting, healing, freedom and victory. You know, all those things that you had said in the notes. [00:22:45] Speaker A: For sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really. Knowing your identity is what brings the rest, and I think that's what people are looking for. Can be. You can be really, really busy. You can have a lot going on, but you can be at rest in the midst of all of it. [00:23:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:00] Speaker A: You can have a lot of chaos, a lot of heavy stuff even happening, but you can be at rest in the middle of it. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:23:07] Speaker A: And ultimately, I think that's what's. What's missing in so many people's lives. Jesus offers us that rest. We have it right now, each person. Yeah. And it's. It's just like his love. It's. It's personal and it's offered to everybody. Will you receive it? Will you trust this truth? And that's. That's the real beautiful picture. So that wraps up. That wraps up your episode 51, life. Yeah. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Nothing better. [00:23:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Amen.