Ep. 49 - Hide and Seek

[00:00:00] Speaker A: It's all surfacey stuff. You're asking each other a question, hey, how you doing? But we don't really want the true answer. It's just we want to hear, yeah, I'm doing good. And that's all we're going to give out as well. We're not. We're not getting anywhere deep. So those are not. It's not really true fellowship by any means whatsoever. And I don't think it's happening on so many levels within church because we're masked up because we're playing hide and go seek. And that's why we have to come to this point of stopping to play that game. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Game. [00:00:32] Speaker A: Let's stop playing the game, and let's step into just doing life together. And it really does change everything. Hello and welcome to let's Talk Life. We're back. Back in action. It's almost Halloween. It's hard to believe this is episode 49, us. And it's been a pretty exciting journey. Not just podcasting, but just talking life, both here on the podcast and just in person a couple weeks ago and retreat together. And then I guess it's been longer than a couple weeks ago, but it seems like forever since we've been here. Carl. Yeah, I know it hasn't been that long, but little by the world, life happens. Yeah. What's. What this is. What's really neat is it's kind of been. I would. I would call it like a whirlwind of just all over the place. And yet I'm at rest and I'm at peace in the midst of all of it and was in every aspect. You know, I was up in Michigan, came back to Florida, I was up in North Florida, and I came back home, went to Dallas, and I came back home. It's just like. But I'm at rest. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Good place to be. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Really, really. For sure. So excited to talk life here with you. And we're titling this one hide and seek. Remember playing hide and Go Seek. [00:01:49] Speaker B: Hide and seek. Yeah. [00:01:51] Speaker A: My boys always want to play hide and seek. And man, you're going to be down here in a little while, Carl. You can play it with them. [00:01:58] Speaker B: We can play it with him. Yeah. You know, it's. It's fascinating. What is it about that game that speaks about our. Our hearts? Right. Do we. We want to be found or the flesh. We want to hide. Yeah. Or we want to. We want to be the one who finds everyone. It's just. It's kind of fascinating, you know, look at these little children's games that are, you know, like, you think about a young child. Like, you're, you know, your boys are young, right? The younger you are, the more you want to be found. So it's like. Like I'm hiding, but I keep looking, you know, do you see me? Are you looking for me? And then as they get older, it's. It's more fun to not be found at all and find the coolest spot, man. And so just what do you think? What do you make of that? [00:02:43] Speaker A: It is so such a good thought when I think, like, Raph is 5 years old and he will get to playing the game and we'll play it a few times. Then he's like, no, I don't want to count. I just want to hide. It's just. And I'm like, no, we're playing a game. So each one of us takes a turn, you know, But. But it's just this interesting thing of even. Just what you said. I think all kids starting at a very young age, they want to be seen, they want to be heard, they want to be loved. They have this need inside of them. I mean, it's who we are as just human beings all together. And ultimately we find that incredible love in Christ. And so it's such a beautiful picture. I like that. Just the way that she even laid that out and recognizing. Because it is. I think at a young age you think of it differently than you do at an older age. Because they'll hide and you'll kind of talk as you're walking into rooms. Are they in here? And they'll make little squeaky noises. And it's like they're giving themselves away. But it's because they want to be found. Right. Just like you said. And the older you get, guess what happens? The more you don't want to be found. You actually want to hide. And you've learned to put on that mask and to hide. Yeah. That's fantastic thought to that whole thing. Hide and seek. Wow. So this is a question I guess I threw out there for me on my journey. And I think you liked it according to our conversation beforehand, but just me on my journey of this hide and seek game and learning to take off that mask and. [00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:18] Speaker A: What happens when you stop playing the game? What happens when you stop playing the game? You know, because I have this mask on for so long, so much of my life, and that facade. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. It's on so tight. [00:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And having that mask on and putting this facade, pretending to be something that I'm not. It really causes you to seek after something. Being a child of God, being in Christ. I already have everything that I need, but yet I'm searching for something. And I think that's where a lot of believers really end up. I think that's why this message is so relatable, is because we're all on this journey to really. We're on a quest and we're looking for something, but then we come to this realization, well, I already have it. I'm in Christ, so I don't know what you think about that. [00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, that's well said, Zach. That we hide our self protection. We hide from woundings. Yeah. We hide because we think it makes life make sense. I mean, even with that, you know, the true face idea. If I would have remembered, I have these notes right here. Right. We. We want to prove to others that we're worthy of their love. We want to prove to ourselves we're worthy of being loved. We. We want to be seen as great. We don't want to be seen as faulty or needy. We want to prove to God we're worth his choice to love us. So. So if God loves me, well, I want to prove it. I want to prove that. That I was special. I'm. I'm really important. And we believe God wants us to fake it. So he looks good too. Because if I'm strong, then he's strong. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:54] Speaker B: And it's. Wow. And just all those messages of the mask wearing. [00:06:01] Speaker A: Yes. Wow. [00:06:03] Speaker B: There's two more. Two more here. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:05] Speaker B: We think. We think we're in competition with others, graded on a spiritual curve. So we're competing. So I'm competing against you, you're competing against me. And we think this last one, man. We think God cares more about. Right. Behaviors than our trust. Independence. Yeah. What do you mean? That the Christian life's not about ethics and morals. That was Wayne Jacobson. Write, say I want. Say I want to church anymore. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:06:31] Speaker B: All those things, man. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Man, so good. Thanks for sharing that. [00:06:35] Speaker B: It's. [00:06:35] Speaker A: It is like most Christians are seeking what they already have. And the question is, why? Why do we believe these things? Like, there's a reason why they wrote those things out. Because that is the journey that most believers really have had to process through and come to this realization, this recognition. Wow. And I. I go back to actually one of the things. This is when I got here. So this morning I was up really early just for. I don't know, God just wanted me to be up early. But when I got into the Office. And I read this. I'll show it to you because Emma made me this artwork way back in the day. This little mountainous thing with the sun. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Looks like Virginia. [00:07:15] Speaker A: Thanks. And she's got a note on the back that says, I'm so proud of you, dad. So it's something that. I found it in my Bible. It's just a. One of those keepsake things. She has a couple verses on the front in Colossians 2, 6 and 7, grippingly powerful verses. And I love. I love you, Emma, but I hate this version. So this. This is the journey, though, like, when I'm thinking about why. Why do we think the way that we think, or why do we grow up believing these things. Colossians 2. I'll just stick with verse 6, I guess, right now says, therefore, as you have received Christ Jesus, O Lord, so walk in him. Love that verse. That's been kind of a staple verse to. To go back to and recognize. This is a journey of trusting God. Listen to what I had to look it up. This is. What is this? The version is the nlt. And, you know, I'm not here just to. To knock other versions of the Bible, but this is. This is the frustration that I go through. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Sure. [00:08:15] Speaker A: So. So I want to share this sort of stuff because this is what caused, I think, that confusion. It says this, just as you accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord, you must continue to follow Him. It's like. It's just interesting because it puts such a cond. Such a conditional thing like, I must do this. And so therefore, if I don't do this, what are the consequences? It immediately puts me into this fear. And even the next verse, it says, let your roots go down into him. When here in my nasb, it says, having been firmly rooted. Like, that's a whole different statement. Having been firmly rooted. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Am I striving for this, or am I resting in this reality of this is who I am, and this is, you know, this has been my journey. I think it's been your journey. I think everybody that's stepped into understanding Christ as life, that's the journey is recognizing. Well, wait a minute. Why am I striving for something that I already have in Christ? And then it's a journey of resting in and renewing the mind into this reality that this is who. Who I am in Christ. I'm going to live from there. Good stuff. [00:09:23] Speaker B: That's really good, Zach. [00:09:24] Speaker A: And. [00:09:24] Speaker B: And I would just say that. That either we're complete in Christ or we're not. Like, yeah, I Mean further in Colossians 2, that we're complete in Him. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's. [00:09:36] Speaker B: I don't know where it came from, Zach. I don't. But at some point in the, in the circles of Right churchy in America, and I don't think it's just America, but somehow we've. We've impressed upon people into seminaries and through that we're actually not complete in Christ and that we have to do our part. And again, just finding, finding a quote this morning from Jerry falwell from like 1970, something where he said, it's our job to do this and God helps us or with God helping us, or maybe God will help us. That, that kind of idea that it's all up to us. God kind of just. He gives us a little helping hand, and that's that separation mentality it is of that keeps being passed on. But somehow Christ is not in me, that I'm not actually complete in Christ. So. So I'm still looking for something. And the number one thing I believe it is Zach. And this is what we keep going back to, is our identity. I think that's. That's what I'm searching for. If I'm not. If I'm not. If I'm not receiving it from the Father in heaven, then I am constantly seeking it from others or, or trying to. Trying to do it myself. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we don't. We don't feel like that's who we are. And so therefore, we believe the lies and we believe the enemy who's going to come in and cause more confusion and cause us to feel even less like we are what the Bible says we are. And that was one of the most beautiful things that I started with when I went and taught this up in North Florida here. I started with Ephesians 1 and just says, look at what God says is true of you. And I prefaced it all with, you are either in Adam or you're in Christ. You're either a child of God or not. And as a child of God, this is who you are. And then the question is, does that sound right for you? And it's like for most people, it's, no, that's. That's not me. It's like, well, it's true. It's what God says. You know, going back to Andrew Farley, if what God says of you and what you say of you, if they don't line up, who's right? Right. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Wow. [00:11:41] Speaker A: And so stepping into that, first of all, that revelation, and then secondly, walking that out, Just like Colossians 2, Six says, I walk it out the same way that I received it. It's not by my efforts. It's not because I'm good enough. It's just by faith. [00:11:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you receive. Did you receive the Spirit by works? Yeah, you know, it's just this whole idea that, that. That faith in Jesus gets me in, so I believe in Jesus gets me in, and everything else is up to me. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Like, that's everything else work. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Yep. As John lynch says, it has to raise up a little bit to just even be considered heresy. Like. [00:12:17] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:17] Speaker B: That mentality that it's up to me or I gotta do my part like that. [00:12:22] Speaker A: Sure. [00:12:22] Speaker B: That's heresy, guys. It's not grace. Yeah, that's not grace. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So interesting. So I. I did my devotions this morning as we're. [00:12:32] Speaker B: All right. [00:12:33] Speaker A: Good job joking about. [00:12:34] Speaker B: No, this is. [00:12:35] Speaker A: This is funny. The reason I say it that way is because today is October 29th. So I have this little thing in here, little tag, whatever you call that little thing. And it's marked to today's date. But guess where I pulled it from? I pulled it from, like, July something. So I haven't done my daily time in this book for months. And guess what? I'm still good with God. [00:12:56] Speaker B: And. [00:12:57] Speaker A: And in reality, this is what's so beautiful. I had a friend, your friend, too, Scott Ralph. He texted me and said, man, I feel bad. I haven't been really on this journey. And then he's like, hold on a second. No, it's. It's the Holy Spirit that's with you. And I'm so excited that he's working. And that's the reality. [00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:16] Speaker A: Not that spending time every morning with God in some sort of devotion can't be a good thing. [00:13:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:23] Speaker A: But that's not the main thing. I study because I desire it. I soak it up because I want to. [00:13:29] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:13:30] Speaker A: And so then. Then I'm coming from a whole different perspective, too. It's not just my quoted time of my quota. I'm feeling that I need to do this. But I love this. This is Wayne Jacobson's book. See if I can read it backward. Live, loved, free and full. Fantastic words of wisdom. He says this in there. Let me make sure I'm on the right spot. Nothing. There's nothing better than being in a conversation that counts with people who are deeply invested. And he says following that up, that may be a great definition for fellowship. Being in a conversation that counts with people who are deeply Invested. So I just. I had to stop there. And I'll stop us here, too, to just think what was for you, Carl? And I'll ask myself this, too. What was for us? What was fellowship like? Like in our. In our lives, growing up in the church context and ministry context. What. How would. Would you have defined fellowship? Would it have been that. [00:14:33] Speaker B: Well, I mean, the average. I'll say this, the average church pastor, whatever, would consider coffee and a bagel or donut, that's their fellowship. Because. Because people are talking now. What they're talking about is usually the weather or sports or politics. And maybe depending on what's going on, depends on the circle of what's number one, two, and three, then you have sort of the what's going on, like, you know, work or family stuff. But it's the. It's like the iceberg model. It's actually what's below the surface. [00:15:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:07] Speaker B: That has brought me deep fellowship with other believers. You know, it. It is. I mean, what did totally. What did Wayne say? People who are deeply invested. [00:15:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So a conversation. Yeah, a conversation that counts with people that are deeply invested. Because that, that's such a true statement about what. What you're sharing about, basically the bagel or the donut time or whatever. It's all surfacey stuff. You're asking each other a question, hey, how you doing? But we don't really want the true answer. It's just we want to hear, yeah, I'm doing good. And that's all we're going to give out as well. We're not. We're not getting anywhere deep. So that. Those are not. It's not really true fellowship by any means whatsoever. We're not getting to the core of any sort of relational aspect. And I don't think it's happening on so many levels within church because we're just. Because we're masked up because we're playing hide and go seek. And that's why we have to come to this point of, you know, stopping to play that game. Let's stop playing the game and let's step into just doing life together. And it really does change everything. And it has for me, this. I'm going to jump to this thought because this is kind of where it led me, you know, this whole illustration of hide and seek. [00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:26] Speaker A: When I. When I realized that I hid and was still sought and loved by God, it changed everything. And that's when it began. It's hard to say that it didn't. Didn't start this last weekend. It didn't start, you know, 12 weeks before that or 12 months before that. It's hard to say. But in all those instances, there were new revelations and new things, but I was able to step more and more out of playing the game. [00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:59] Speaker A: And to allow, like. To basically step back into, like, the garden where Adam and Eve walked in. The coolness of the day. And it changes everything when you can picture and understand and see God in that light instead of him being this. This police officer or this judge. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:19] Speaker A: Someone to be afraid of. And the more that I started to begin to see myself in my relationship with God that way, the more I was able to relate to the people around me as well, in a different way. [00:17:29] Speaker B: So it's. [00:17:29] Speaker A: It's a beautiful picture. [00:17:30] Speaker B: It is. And I think this. I think, you know, that definition, people who are deeply invested. I also think this. That you can. Can by. Through vulnerability. Through vulnerability. The depth of the relationship can. Can be so strong even when you first meet someone. Yes. Just through vulnerability. [00:17:50] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:50] Speaker B: You know, taking a risk and sharing, being open. You know, just maybe the greatest example of this is, you know, my good. My good buddy, Fear, up in New Jersey, who. Who said to me in 2019, it's probably around September, because I remember there was a fire. No, it couldn't have been. Maybe it was. Maybe it was August, had a fire going. Who knows? But he said to me, you've done more for me in these three months than you did 19 years. And the reason why is because I shared my heart. So sharing my heart, being open and vulnerable, beautiful. Led me to the deep relationships that I would call now. Fellowship. That's what I would call now. [00:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's a whole different picture for me, too. This guy Joseph that I met, he lives up in Sarasota, so he's half hour away, 40 minutes away from my house. But I found a guy that was selling a playground on Facebook, Marketplace. And I went to pick it up and got to talking to him and realized he's got a ministry and I've got a ministry, and we got to talking. [00:18:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:55] Speaker A: And that was our first encounter. And then we. We connected, I think on a phone call or we went. We met up. We met up at a coffee shop once, and after that, and then I shared with him once I sent him a text and just said, hey, man, would you pray for me? I'm just really struggling. And he, like, he actually said that later that day, he was meeting with somebody else. He's like, man, I just met this guy, and he's already being vulnerable, like, sharing his heart with me. [00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:22] Speaker A: And I said, that's so unusual. And this is the very stuff that we're talking about. I could see that he was struggling with the context of his church and how they view his ministry, because it's an addiction ministry, and they want to see, like, numbers and. [00:19:35] Speaker B: Right. Metrics. [00:19:37] Speaker A: Give us all this. And he's like, how do you. How do you, like, measure discipleship? Walking and journeying with these people? I can't always give. Sometimes you can, and sometimes you can't. And so he was struggling with that. And so I just felt like we're on the same page as far as where we're at in that struggle. And so I just felt like it was easy for me just to reach out. And it was just like you said, this immediate bond. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:03] Speaker A: That he came down here once and we met to. In my office, and we're going to continue to meet because there's just that immediate connection, and it's such a beautiful thing. That is what true fellowship is, when we can stop playing the game and we can actually be in each other's world and be vulnerable with each other. Just be real. It does. It changes everything. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Stop playing the game. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:27] Speaker B: Stop wearing a mask. Right. Stop hiding. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:31] Speaker B: That. That. That. Totally conditioned to think that we're missing something or we're. That God's withholding something. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:38] Speaker B: You know, the shame that defines us, the shame that motivates us to hide totally. And then we find that Christ is all sufficient. [00:20:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And we step into true healing and true freedom and true, true victory. And I love this because I hear this from so many different ang. Different people that are walking this out is that once you see it, you can't unsee it. [00:21:03] Speaker B: That's right. [00:21:04] Speaker A: And it doesn't matter who teaches you what, who tells you what, who disappoints you, who hurts you. It's like, I can't unsee what God has shown me. And. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:16] Speaker A: So we just move. Move forward with. With the journey. And it's a journey. It's a frightening journey sometimes. [00:21:23] Speaker B: It's a Right. [00:21:24] Speaker A: But it's an exciting adventure, too. So that's the life that we get to live, and that's the life that we get to talk about. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Jesus, He, Grace is a person. And Titus 2:11 and 12, he teaches us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches us all things. Right. And Titus 2 says it teaches us to say no to all that stuff of the world. And it's so much easier when you can. Going back to what you said, when you know who you are, your identity. It's like I can rest in this. [00:21:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:54] Speaker A: And rest in who's in me. So, wow. I think that wraps up our time together. We're already at 25 minutes. Time flies when you're having fun and talking life in Christ.