Ep. 84 Overcoming Feelings

[00:00:00] Speaker A: It says, mightier than the waves of the sea is his love for you and me. [00:00:05] Speaker B: Wow. [00:00:05] Speaker A: And I just think, man, I, you know, I live, I live close to the ocean and the waves are not huge in the Gulf, for one, but. But even though they're not huge, they can wipe you out. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:00:16] Speaker A: And I was thinking that emphasis on his love is so crucial, and it's something that I just overlooked for all those years because it was, maybe it was too mushy, too scary to get into. It was that vulnerability stuff that I think we've been culturally, like I already said culturally, especially as men, we shy away from all that stuff. Oh, don't, don't bring feelings into this. And love, we've assumed it's just this feeling. I think it's so much greater than just that. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:00:45] Speaker A: But when we recognize and know the love of God, man, I don't have to prove myself anymore. All right. Hello and welcome. It's Carl and Zach here. Let's talk life. And on a week where life, daily life is kind of clear and present for each of us, and I think it is every week, and that's, that's the joy of doing this, we find it's the best time to talk life in Christ is when we're facing things in life that we don't know what to do with. Because the reality is Christ in me is best processed and understood through just day to day struggles of life and family and kids and all of it. So if I didn't know struggle, I wouldn't know relief. If I, if the law wasn't a ministry of death, I wouldn't know Christ is a ministry of true life. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:34] Speaker A: So we live in this world and we live in this earth suit, and we have feelings and we're overcomers in Christ. But what do you do when your feelings become louder than that truth? And so that's kind of what we're talking about, overcoming feelings today. So. Hello and welcome, Carl. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Hey. Hey. This is, this is an interesting title. And I know you love those provocative titles to get the hundreds of thousands of listeners. So I appreciate, I appreciate that. You know, one of the things, one of the. As soon as I read that, I think of, so you don't want to go to church anymore, which is such a good book. I see it on the shelf, I'm like, I should read it again. I think I read it once a year and it's just so good. So you don't want to go to church anymore by Wayne Jacobson, which if you Or I would have picked that up, you know, years ago. We probably wouldn't have picked it up. We would have looked at him like, oh, that's terrible. Like, that's, that's. That's heresy. Anyway, so in the book, he talks about a pastor, a pastor who was talking to a guy in the church, and the guy in the church was going through some tough things, and the elder wise man said, oh, so you told him to avoid his feelings or whatever it was. Avoid feelings or not have feelings? And the pastor sat there and he thought. And he goes, oh, I did. I told him to neglect his feelings or avoid his feelings. And so feelings are a very good indicator of. Of what's going on inside. And I know that for me, just speaking for myself, although I could speak for you too. Not being emotionally literate, not. Not being able to understand or articulate or even explain or process like you said, with it, with another trusted friend, brother in Christ was. Was most of my life. It was most of my life. And so when, When, When. When thing. When life happens. How about that? When life happens, what do we do to medicate? Where do we go to. To. To find things that are not from God that. That actually are like the broken cisterns that Jeremiah talks about. Not the living water, not the. Not the. The river of life that. That God's waiting to give us. And so, so I just think about that. That phrase of like, oh, so you told him to avoid his feelings? Did you tell him to neglect his feelings? And gave me another verse and said, stop doing this and go home. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:54] Speaker B: I don't know if any of that resonates with you, but, man, it does. [00:03:58] Speaker A: I mean, it does. Loud and clear. And even just, Even just the books, some of the. It's not just that book. That's. That's one of them, but like the cure and even the path, like just the subtitles on. On all of. To me would have been books that I would have said, no, trash. This. This isn't something I need. I think the path says, what if the way of Jesus is different than you think? I'm like, wow, no, that's not right. Because I'm. I'm right on doing what I'm supposed to do. Yeah. [00:04:24] Speaker B: Because I know, I know, I know he's the way. Right, Right. Right. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So the reality is I didn't fully understand. I knew that he was the way and the truth, but I didn't know that he was the life. Yeah. And that's the reality. And so that's the different. That's the difference that they're saying that he's. It's different than you think. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Wow. Wow. [00:04:48] Speaker A: So that really changes a lot of things. I mean, I. I heard you just when we're off camera saying 42 years. Is. Is that what you were. You live for 42 years until you came to this revelation. Right. That's what you meant by that? [00:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:05:01] Speaker A: For me, it was 43 years. Wow. And so I'm. I'm really just. I'm. I'm fascinated by this. This number. Like, that's 85 years between the two of us that we spent striving. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:14] Speaker A: In the wilderness. And the wilderness isn't all bad. Right. Like, it. It took that wilderness to get us to a place of the promised land of really understanding. [00:05:23] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Christ's life. But man, 85 years. Like, you just think, man, couldn't we have spent that 85 years better? And, yeah, we could have, but this is what we needed. This is. This was our journey. [00:05:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:36] Speaker A: And we can rest in that. Right. [00:05:39] Speaker B: That's man. And it's such a blessing to, you know, in our circle, our sphere of, you know, just connections. The. The men who are in their 60s and early 70s who discovered this much later than us. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:54] Speaker B: And so has. Has really blessed me of just saying, wow, thank you, God, that I was 42, not 62. Thank you, God, that I was 42, not 72. [00:06:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:04] Speaker B: That. That the. I have. I have. The best years are still ahead. Even if. Even if I were to die physically today, I've already died, you know. [00:06:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:12] Speaker B: As we've talked about. You can listen to later. Earlier podcast. And so, yeah, it's just a different mindset. Like, Christ's life is right now. And that was never. It was always separation thought, you know, this idea of separation and. No, no, it's actually connection. It's actually the incarnation, the Holy Spirit in me. Yeah, it's right now. It's right now. His life is right now. [00:06:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So when. When I think about it, too, like, when your life blows up like yours did. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:40] Speaker A: When you just up and resign like I did. And we're in our 40s and you're stepping into what they call the prime of your life. [00:06:48] Speaker B: I know, right. Yeah. [00:06:51] Speaker A: Right. And we stepped out of the. The consistency, the paycheck or the. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. The known for the unknown. [00:06:59] Speaker A: And I look at that, so I can say, okay, yeah, I'm frustrated with this 85 years of wandering. But then I'm like, but we stepped into the promised land in our 40s. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:08] Speaker A: And so we have this opportunity to journey with people in the prime of our lives. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. [00:07:14] Speaker A: You know, like. [00:07:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:15] Speaker A: So it's like, wow, that's. That's really beautiful to even ponder and to think about. But, yeah. Getting to our. To our topic, which I don't know where it's gonna go. [00:07:25] Speaker B: Well, I really like that thing you sent me on Friday, so I didn't know if you wanted to talk about that at all. [00:07:29] Speaker A: I do. Yeah, I do. That's one of the things I have right here. I have. So I sent you a picture of this book, and I love this little book. It's Daily Reflections. You know, it's called Live, Loved, Free Fall from Wayne Jacobson, one of our favorite authors. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:45] Speaker A: And I just love this. I sent it to you just that. I'll just read that first little section of it. It says, you have a choice. I can keep following you and rescuing you out of all the places you get st. Or you can turn around and follow me, and I will lead you to the heights of my glory. And like I said to you off camera, this is the first time. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:06] Speaker A: That I've ever taken those words, follow me, and equated those to trust. And so that's. That's why. And I know you said this too, like, man. [00:08:17] Speaker B: With. [00:08:18] Speaker A: Without Wayne Jacobson's writing, I'd be. I'd be stumbling over the follow me stuff because I feel like it's just this challenge that I can't do this just striving that I can't measure up to. And it's something that I'm trying to achieve, and I'm not doing a very good job with it. And when it. When I can finally read it and understand it as trust me, just trust me. And that. That helps me so much. So I love that there's so much more in this. And I know there's stuff that you, I'm sure, want to share about it, [00:08:47] Speaker B: but what a couple things. The number one is you have a choice. Like, every day, we have a choice. [00:08:52] Speaker A: Yep. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:54] Speaker B: And I love your connection to follow me and trust. [00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:59] Speaker B: And because I can go through the motions, think I'm following him. [00:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:04] Speaker B: And I think that was a part of most of my life is I didn't even know what it was like to trust God. I thought I was. Because I thought trusting God was manipulating and because we call it leading. Right. I'm leading the church. I'm doing this. And so. And it's like I've Been manipulated as well. Right. Not just me, I've been manipulated. And so what's it like to follow him? Right? Like. Like that. Like Jesus says to the. To these men, follow me, and I'll make you fishers of men. And immediately they dropped their nets. They untangled. They untangled themselves from the things they were tangled in. And just that was trust. Yeah, right. That was. So sorry, God. So think about this. When we fail, when we. When we find ourselves as a dog returning to its vomit, I think back to Jesus, the disciples, immediately, they. They untangled the nets and followed him. Like, we don't have to sit and grovel. We don't have to sit and wait for the right time to. To come back. It's like Jesus with Peter at the. At the beach. He said he restores them. He shows them, like, hey, Peter. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:10] Speaker B: I love you. And it was what. It was three days after. I mean, it was. It was a matter of days from. From his great dynamic. So. So follow me. Trust, like you said. And then I just love this. There's no situation that I can't lead. So this is like God calling to us. Right. There's no situation that he can't lead us through. There's no promise I cannot fulfill in you trust my voice more than your own. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:35] Speaker B: There's no. So think about this. No matter what we're going through and whoever's listening right now, there's no situation that God can't lead us through. [00:10:42] Speaker A: Nothing. There's nothing. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Right. Like John Elvis says, there's nothing that can't be restored. Right. There's nothing. [00:10:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:50] Speaker B: It's like, God, you're so. Greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world. So that to me, man. [00:10:55] Speaker A: Amen. Yep. Yeah. It's so good. So good. He. He is able. I love. I love that he's able to make you stand. He's able to make all grace abound to you. [00:11:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:08] Speaker A: To help you understand and know that you have all that you need. Like, it's just. [00:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:13] Speaker A: There's so much beauty, so incredible. And it's like. Because this. This is what every believer is facing, is we're walking through real life. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:23] Speaker A: Dealing with real life things on a daily basis. Right. And so we have real feelings. And. And I think that we have. We have been taught, really, just culturally speaking. [00:11:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:35] Speaker A: Especially as men. Just stuff those feelings down. [00:11:38] Speaker B: Just. [00:11:39] Speaker A: Just, you know, toughen up, fight through it, get over it. [00:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Not deal with it. Not trust God in the midst of it. And so Just, just learning to, to trust the truth and to be, to recognize. Okay, I am an overcomer. How am I an overcomer? It's because of this truth of. So I can, I can take my feelings and I can line them up with the truth and I can say, okay, which one am I going to choose today? And like you said. Yeah, that's how he started off. You have a choice. Wow. How am I gonna look at this? [00:12:13] Speaker B: Wow. [00:12:13] Speaker A: So. Yeah, it's just so beautiful. So beautiful. [00:12:17] Speaker B: So my feelings matter. [00:12:18] Speaker A: Good stuff. Yeah. Yeah, they do. [00:12:21] Speaker B: And what, and what do we do with him? Right. My feelings matter and what do I do with them? [00:12:26] Speaker A: Right, right. Yeah. I mean, you pulled out the, the feelings wheel, right. You're the one that introduced me to that. And right off the bat, even, it's like you, you know, like, feeling. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:37] Speaker A: But that's, culturally speaking, that's where I was coming from. [00:12:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:40] Speaker A: And the more that I dig in to recognize, okay, yeah, feelings aren't good or bad, they're just real. Right there. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Yes. Right. [00:12:48] Speaker A: And so it gives me an opportunity and a choice to say, okay, what am I going to do with this? [00:12:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:54] Speaker A: Where am I at? [00:12:55] Speaker B: Like, you said to me off camera that most people are listening, not watching YouTube. So I'm hoping, I'm hope, but I hold up, I'm holding up the feelings, Will. And, and what we do is we say, well, half of it's positive, like, half of it's good feelings and half of it's bad. And, and yet what if, what if it is the, the sadness or the being being aware that, oh, when I, when I fear, I become anxious, you know, and insecure, as opposed to, oh, I just want to feel these things. Well, well, just understanding, Understanding these things. Very helpful. Very helpful. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:31] Speaker B: As opposed to stuffing it. And, and again, this is all part of the, this is all part of God. You're, you're forming me into, into the image of Christ every day. And so it's, it's learning to trust him when I am afraid. Right. It's learning to trust him when I am insecure. It's learning to hold on to him when I'm sad. [00:13:50] Speaker A: Wow. [00:13:51] Speaker B: You know that it's Christ in me. It's Christ in me and all of it. [00:13:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:55] Speaker B: So it's not positive or negative. It's it's just like, hey, here's where I am today. [00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And what am I gonna do with it? [00:14:01] Speaker B: And what am I gonna do with it? Yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker A: So great. So great. It's so good. I, I, I Just looked up at this picture we have in the stream. This used to be the. The baby's room. [00:14:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Where are you? [00:14:14] Speaker A: We're still moving stuff around. I'm at home today, and so I had to have a whole new setup. But I just look over at this whale that's on the wall in the picture. Says, mightier than the me is his love for you and me. [00:14:29] Speaker B: Wow. [00:14:30] Speaker A: And I just think, man, I. You know, I live. I live close to the ocean, and the waves are not huge in the Gulf, for one, but. But even though they're not huge, they can wipe you out. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:41] Speaker A: And I was thinking, but that emphasis on his love is so crucial, and it's something that I just overlooked for all those years because it was. Maybe it was too mushy, too scary to get into. It was that vulnerability stuff that I think that we've been culturally. Like I already said culturally, especially as men, we shy away from all that stuff. Oh, don't. Don't bring feelings into this. And love, we've assumed is just this feeling. I think it's so much greater than just that. [00:15:08] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:15:09] Speaker A: But when we recognize and know the love of God, man, I don't have to prove myself anymore. And, I mean, I found this. This is where I was at last night. I was like, I'm gonna sit down and think through. Okay, podcast. What are we going to talk about? You know, here I've got a list of some other things that we have, but I'm like, you know, I don't know what are we gonna. But I. My mind was just going a million different directions. And so that was. I was like, man, this is just kind of the weekend of us just kind of processing through so many things. But I found myself, like, feeling like, am I doing enough? [00:15:40] Speaker B: Like, wow. [00:15:42] Speaker A: I set up my office here because I needed a space to be able to just close the door and come in here and sit and to read and to just ponder, because I need just some. Some quiet space, you know, in the midst of the chaos that happens outside that door. And it's so beautiful. Like, what I found was, like. So I really. This is where I really was starting to just process all this. And like, God, sometimes I. This is where I'm. I'm at. God, I feel guilty sometimes coming in here and closing the door. Like, should I be better at what, you know, leading my family? [00:16:15] Speaker B: Am I. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Am I neglecting them by coming in here? And I was just trying to chew on all this stuff. And what I found is I'm Trying to. I'm trying to prove something, and I'm like, why do I need to prove anything? [00:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:26] Speaker A: It's like, what if I came in here for 10 minutes and just could sit in silence and just process one thing for the day? Would that be success in God's eyes? And I'm like, I think so. Like, it's okay. And so that's all the things I was just processing through yesterday and trying to be like, man, I'm. It's hard to balance all these things in life, you know, like, every family goes through it. You have kids that have this and this and this, and you have a. A spouse, and you have, you know, jobs and different things that you need to do, projects that you need to work, you know, so you're overwhelmed with all that. [00:16:58] Speaker B: Overwhelmed. Yeah. [00:17:00] Speaker A: And it's like to just come to God and just be at rest with him and in the midst of it all. And that's part of the space that I needed was to be able. Okay, I can actually unplug, even if just for 10 minutes. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:13] Speaker A: Just come in here and be in silence for a moment to just get my thoughts, get my focus. And so. It's beautiful. This is kind of a rabbit trail off into what I was going through the last 24 hours, but. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's good, man. Thanks for sharing. And, yeah, I don't know if there's questions that you want to. For. For us to both answer. I know. Yeah, a lot of questions. I don't know if there's anything that's stirring. [00:17:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:36] Speaker B: I know there's a couple of questions you like better than others. [00:17:38] Speaker A: You may kind of jump in just for our notes, say, to the third section of questions, because I think this is crucial to understand, like, to use these questions that lead us into helping us trust God instead of our circumstances. Trusting God instead of our feelings. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Trusting the truth. So those first two questions to me just kind of jumped up and. I don't know. We can go wherever. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:00] Speaker A: The question what is left? [00:18:01] Speaker B: What is true about me in Christ right now? [00:18:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:04] Speaker B: If I don't feel it, Even if [00:18:06] Speaker A: I don't feel it. And I think it's. [00:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:08] Speaker A: So the way. The reason I think I'm going here is just because I think this helps even the listener to understand. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:13] Speaker A: What do we do? What do we do? Like, I'm not feeling this right now. I'm not feeling this truth, this reality. What is it? What do I do with this right now? So that's where I think, like, immediately I just. The only thing I wrote down There was Romans 6 and Colossians 2. [00:18:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:28] Speaker A: And I think we can. In Romans 5, I actually pulled that up. I think I have that on my computer right here. That's where I go to the. Much more. In Romans 5, that's where I go to Romans 6. And I recognize the overcoming reality of sin that we have. Like, we are dead to sin and we're alive to God. Like, I can actually live to God because I'm new. Right. And. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:53] Speaker A: And Romans 5 starts off with, you know, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God. Like, just that alone is much more than everything that I ever thought. Like, I have peace with God. [00:19:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:07] Speaker A: There's some exciting stuff there. I'm not even remembering caution. It's too off the top of my head. But I think it's similar to Romans 6 to where it's saying, we have overcome this sin. Overcomes not even the word, but that we are dead to sin and we are alive to God. So I don't have my note in front of me, but. So. Yeah. And Colossians 3 goes on to putting on the new self. So it's. I'm trusting. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:32] Speaker A: This new self. [00:19:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:34] Speaker A: And I'm learning to put this new, new self on. Like, it's already on. But it's like, am I trusting the reality that that's true? [00:19:43] Speaker B: You know, that's really good because Ted Roberts says that. And, you know, true face. It is only truth that's trusted that transforms. So it could be truth, but I'm not trusting it. Like. Like it's some type of, like, intellectual or mental ascent. But it's not something I actually trust. But when I trust it. So it. Do I trust that Christ is in me even on my worst day? [00:20:05] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Do I trust that he is working all things out even when we fail? Because for most of us, it's always this, oh, well, be careful, or something worse will happen to you, or he's really gonna. He's. He's out to get you. And so this idea of God was right. Just this. This almighty being who is just always out to get us. And so we hide, thinking we're hiding from him like Adam in the garden. And it's like, no, he's actually. He's actually exposing us. Exposing the poser in us. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Out of love. [00:20:39] Speaker A: Wow. [00:20:40] Speaker B: Because he loves us. Because he wants us to experience that fullness of life. [00:20:45] Speaker A: That leads me to another question. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:20:48] Speaker A: Why. Why are we fighting against that? You know, like, why are we fighting for the poser. It's like we. We found. [00:20:56] Speaker B: Great question. [00:20:57] Speaker A: We found such, like, peace. What we perceive as peace, it's a lie. Right. From the enemy. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:04] Speaker A: But we think that we're at the most peace and the most comfort by posing. Like, I don't want everybody to know the truth about me. Right. And so we just try to maintain that. That poser that we mask up, hide. We don't talk about our feelings or any of it. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:21] Speaker A: And what it does is it actually keeps us from true victory. [00:21:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:21:25] Speaker A: The victory that we already have. [00:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah. We think. We think that it's helped us whatever. Whatever. Whatever our. Through our life, the patterns of the flesh that has helped us manage life, get through life. We think it's our friend. We, you know, and. No, it's not. It's not. It's actually preventing us from full intimacy. Fully. Fully being known and. [00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:49] Speaker B: Knowing. [00:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Want to experience the love that we. We already have from God. [00:21:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:56] Speaker A: But we can experience it because. Because of the intimacy that he's really. So we're posing because we're afraid of that intimacy. But it's only in the intimacy that we actually experience the love. [00:22:07] Speaker B: It's. And it's through vulnerability that we receive it. It is through vulnerability. Learning to tell yourself, learning to receive love, but just being known. I mean, one of the things I wrote on Friday is like, God, am I really your beloved? And if that's true, which it says it is. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:25] Speaker B: Right. So I just spent so much time. I know we're winding down our time, so. But man, Ephesians 3 says, that's good that. That all this. All this prayer, that I would know how much he loves me. And it is. It is the foundation of everything. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Amen. [00:22:44] Speaker B: So good. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I was just thinking about Romans 1. It's the first thing that I walk somebody through, like the first time that I might meet with them. If they're asking to meet. [00:22:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:55] Speaker A: Or if I'm recognizing that they're really struggling to believe who they are in Christ. And so this is what I would say to anybody that's even listening. Just. Just read Ephesians 1. And every time it mentions something about who you are, trust it. Believe this is true. Because if you're in Christ, these things are true. Because he says, not in the future. He says grace. Grace and peace. Right. He says grace and peace to you. That to the reader, was new because it was like God was always feared, like he was the punisher. And now it's grace and Peace to you. And it's just such beautiful language. Every spiritual blessing that he chose us, that were holy and blameless before him, that his grace, he's freely bestowed on us, his grace that he. He uses even that word, beloved. It's like, man, can I believe this? Can I trust this? And I love that word. I use that oftentimes too. From, from true face, truth, trusted, transforms. And it's so true. Like, I, I. The emphasis always and for. For 43 years of my life was the truth. We gotta stand on the truth. The truth, the truth, the truth. And it's like, that's great. There is truth. Right. But I'm not really equipping people, and I'm not also even focusing myself on trusting that truth. [00:24:16] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:24:17] Speaker A: And that's what brings the transformation. You know, shoving the truth down people's throat doesn't cause them to trust it. And so it doesn't bring transformation. And that's just. That's the reality of the world we live in. I think we're out of time. I don't even know where we're at. [00:24:32] Speaker B: It's so good. So good. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's good stuff. Awesome stuff. Thank you, Carl. Thank you, listener. For the, for the few of you that listen on YouTube and watch, we're just trusting God with, With this whole thing. We don't. We don't have any expectations. We just enjoy talking life. So there we go. Thank you.