Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: If I think of myself as a liability to God, I think that I am a hindrance, an encumbrance, a burden, a handicap, that I'm inconveniencing Him, that I'm an obstacle. And none of those things are true.
It's so difficult. Just like you said, you have these lifelong messages that we've been believing. And I love how Kyle Winkler says this statement. I've heard him say it a few times. You're not in God's way. You are his way. The gospel is all about making you new. You become this incredible vessel, this temple of the Holy Spirit.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Right.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: So you're not in his way. You are his way. Hello, welcome, friends, fellow travelers. Thanks again for joining us on our little podcast here. Let's Talk Life. It's a joy to talk life in Christ. It's been so great to do that with my cousin Carl. What a blessing it's been. We don't host a podcast because we have all the answers or because we're the authority in the field.
We are, however, firm believers in that journey together with others, creating conversation, creating space for God to make his mark, to speak in each of our lives. And so we've been talking about this identity statement. Galatians 2:20 says, I have been crucified with Christ. We started off by saying that this is an identity statement, not a self improvement slogan. And so today's episode. I'm going to. I am statement. And so we're just going to kind of dig into that but.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: But not the. But not the. But not the Iams of John, not
[00:01:34] Speaker A: the IMs of John.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Okay. All right. Yeah, I'll reshift my focus.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: And Carl's enjoying the outdoors in Virginia.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's out of necessity. There's no room. So I came out here early morning. Beautiful lavender behind me. It's not. It's not blue sky, but. But sometimes a cloudy sky is. Is pretty as well, right? Just.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Another new day. God creating a beautiful canvas for us daily.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Yeah. So true.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I got to see that canvas a little bit this morning. It's. I guess the meteorologists are saying we're in this El Nino, whatever that means. But what I do know is they say that for Florida, there are less hurricanes during that season, but there's more rain. And so like today is this been a rainy day, and that's very uncommon in Florida. Rain comes every day, but maybe for a short time. So on my drive in, on and off, heavy rain, and then all of a sudden everything kind of calmed down and just a beautiful rainbow.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Wow. And then. Wow.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Downpour rain again.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: It was just.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: It was just unique. It was. And it was beautiful. So just like you said, cloudy, rainy, still beautiful.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. Those rainbows. Those rainbows in that. In that sky, Whether it's a blue sky or we had one the other day here in the sort of like a gray sky. Just like. Oh, thank you, God. And like, just. Yeah. I mean, just beautiful. Beautiful, right?
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Colors, you know, and even talking about these identity statements and so the fact that we could say, I'm a saint, I'm a child of God is even more beautiful than. Yeah. Than a sunset or a rainbow in the sky. Wow.
But God's work, His transformative work inside us is the best. The best canvas.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: I love that. Thank you, Carl, for even saying that. Because I just think of. You know, you sit at a campfire and you can just be mesmerized by just staring at the fire. You go to the beach here, you know, and you just stare at the waves or the sunset. And, like, you're mesmerized by these things. But these truths, these. These scriptural and reality truths of who we are in Christ are just as mesmerizing. And may we. And anybody that's listening, anybody that we work with, anybody that we just have ability to minister in their life, may they be mesmerized by these realities.
Because there. There is times that I can just. I'm reading something or I'm listening to something, I just have to pause it or put down the book and just sit back and just soak in.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: This incredible reality.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Is it true?
[00:04:09] Speaker A: Is it. Can it really be this good? Is it really?
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: And it is.
And so it's mesmerizing. Just like the natural things that we see in life. So. Mahal. It's just so beautiful. So, yeah, we're looking at one of our favorite resources, the Rest of the gospel. And chapter 10 is titled by the author, God's Precious Assets. And so, like, these I am statements is like, am I precious to God? Yeah, it's like, I am. Am I an asset to God?
I am. And I. I never would have seen it that way before. I don't know. I remember the first time reading to this book. There were so many things that just jumped out to me that was just like, wow. I've never thought of it like this before. I've never looked at myself this way before. And I think that's the beauty. That's. That's the thing of being mesmerized. By the truths of God and the truth of who he is and who we are. Both.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And even going back to like. And I think the listener. I think. I think the listener will understand what I'm saying. When you think about the lifelong messages we carry with us, you know, like. Like I'm a failure or I'm a mistake or I'm not enough or I'll always be this way. Right. Just. Just those messages that even. Like an experience. Like while the heart helps us understand.
And so when. When we turn it around and say, wait a minute, I'm precious.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Like. Like I'm an asset because we think of ourselves as a liability. And even that, that, that second paragraph, right. Where the author says, as long as you live under the false idea, your liability to God, that no matter how things are going, you will feel inadequate. You will feel that you come up short and are not all that God wants you to be. You'll be focused on trying to get your act together. Yeah.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: So true.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: And if that doesn't sum up the room of good intentions cure language, if that doesn't add up, the poser while the heart language.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: That. That were coming up short and I gotta get my act together.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: And it's still focused on self. It's still focused on self improvement or what do I need to do for God to accept me.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So. So amazing. I. I looked up even just the word liability.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Just with a thesaurus, really.
And, and just listen to these words. If I think of myself as a liability, God, I think that I am a hindrance, an encumbrance, a burden, a handicap, that I'm inconveniencing him, that I'm an obstacle. And none of those things are true. It's so difficult. Just like you said, you have these lifelong messages that we've been believing. And I love how Kyle Winkler says this statement. I've heard him say it a few times. You're not in God's way. You are his way. The gospel is all about making you new. And in you, you become this incredible vessel, this temple of the Holy Spirit.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: So you're not in his way. You are his way. And it's just such a beautiful thing to understand.
And it's hard also to understand because we have had those lifelong messages. And that's. That's what this. The training that I went through for counseling, that's what it's all about is, let's look at your history, where you're coming from.
Why are you making you Know these. Why did you make these decisions? Or why are you continuing to make these decisions? It's not. It's not focused on let's fix the sin in your life. It's focused on why are you doing the things that you're doing. Let's dig in a little bit deeper and then reveal, you know, this is actually who you are in Christ, because this is actually who God is.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: That's it. That's it. Because the gospel is not sin management and it's not behavior modification.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: You know, it's. It really is that he heals the brokenhearted and sets the captives free.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: But if I believe it's up to me to get my act together, I'm going to continue to see I'm a liability to him. And so then it's like, well, going back to you. Well, he loves me because he has to. He loves me because it's more like that's. That's who he is. But. But he doesn't really like me, which is a common thought. Like. Like he's disappointed me. They keep messing up. And so then where's the living waters flowing out? I mean, it's like stagnant water. It's like rotten water.
Yeah. It's not. It's not living water flowing out. So. So, I mean, think about this. I mean, I mean, you know, we're. We're not. We're not in our 20s anymore. And you think about older churchgoers. I'll just use that phrase, older churchgoers who are bitter and always mad about something and. Oh, like, just, just like you're like, where's the life? And it's. And it's that always that phrase that, hey, why don't you accept Jesus and be miserable like me?
And it's like all that's so rotten. Like, it's just so wrong.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: It's not appealing. It's not appealing.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: So when did we. So when did we stop being a liability? Right. When did we stop being a liability to him? Wow.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah. The second that we became a new creation. Right.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: And it's like, how many believers? I mean, for me, I believed and received.
My first step truly into. It was nine years old. And then I really had a desire to not just be a Christian, but to even serve. And I thought that was going to be in missions or whatever.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Right. And.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: And it's like, okay, so from nine years old until 43, which was three years ago, it was like, I see myself as a liability.
I saw myself like, even as I went all the way up to Bible college. I was like, yeah, I'm going to serve God. I'm going to get maybe into mission. I don't know what it's going to look like. I. I don't know. But I thought. But what I am going to do is I'm going to be behind the scenes because I'm not the guy to be up front. I'm too scared to speak. I'm too scared. I'm too bashful. I'm not the guy to do that. But I'll be the behind the scenes helping. And it's like, that's how I saw myself. And so guess how I was going to live. I was going to live out of that same mentality. Just like you said. Those life messages, we've convinced ourselves, but all the way since I was 9 years old, in reality, I had become this precious asset to God. And I continue to just see myself as a liability and it was a lie. And I think that's the. The enemy's been really good to, to cause believers to not believe and not understand what they truly have in Christ.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: That's right. Because when we died. When we died on the. When we died on the cross. Galatians 2:20. Right. We're talking about that foundational verse.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: When we died on the cross. So I was crucified with Christ. Here comes this Virginia wind We permanently died to being a liability. God Dan Stone says.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: And so until we came to Christ, we were nothing but a liability.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: And foundational truth is to know you died with Christ, you're no longer liability. You were raised with Christ. You can no longer be anything to God but an asset. He has accepted you. He is pleased with you. He uses you. He lives through you. He speaks through you, and he loves through you.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Any thoughts on that? That he's pleased with you, he uses you, he gives you, speaks for you, loves through you. He's accepted you.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: It's weird how difficult it is to believe that about yourself. It's like, I think we go through life, you know, we really want to build other people up and encourage other people. And we might say all these things to someone else, but we're not really believing them. About myself. That's the way that I look at, you know, all of my ministry years of like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna invest in, speak into, encourage people. All I really could do was encourage them. I couldn't really empower them with the truth. I didn't really know it.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: And I Didn't know it because I wasn't experiencing myself. So I wasn't seeing it as the truth. But. But I did experience along the way that, okay, God has spoken through me. And so I was. I was getting tastes of it.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Right.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: And it was really exciting when it would happen.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: But it was almost like I was still living in this. This Old Testament, the spirits coming and going.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: And I thought that was a reality because, well, I can't overcome my own sin in my own life, so I must not. You know, I can't be a very good vessel if I'm in the midst of sin.
And it's like, wow, well, I didn't. I didn't realize that actually I'm dead to sin and that I am alive to God. That's Romans 6. I think that I'm dead to sin and I'm alive to God. And it's amazing that just not knowing that causes me to sin more and knowing that causes me to actually sin less. And it's not that I'm sinless, it's just that I. It doesn't trip me up as much.
And even when it does trip me up, it doesn't bring me down in shame. It actually brings me right to the Father to say, hey, you know, here I am again. Help me, God.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: So I don't know if that. If that makes sense, but.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: No, it does. And I think about the phrase he uses you. He lives through you. Like, that was kind of like an easier one to understand. Well, God just used me, or God just speak through me. But to understand the fullness of it, the fullness that, oh, I am accepted regardless of what happens on a Sunday morning.
Right. He is pleased with you because he received his gift of Christ. So right now he's fully pleased as we have received Christ. And. Right.
And so just understanding the fullness of it. And I know the next part of it is he talks about the union and being in union together, which is, again, the great mystery of right. Of what I didn't understand.
And.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: You've talked about it too. And.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Being in union together.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. God joined to you. One spirit is absolute bedrock truth. God expressing himself through you, the total you, spirit, soul and body. That's the means of his expression and it. And that's. That's where Frank Friedman, when he told me, go and be the Zach Rasmussen expression of Jesus Christ to those people.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: It's like that's. That was. That was so helpful for me to Actually understand this union a little bit. It's like.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: And.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: And this is the reality. I can be me. So he wasn't saying, go and be like Frank Friedman. Go and do as I do.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Right. Because that's the. That's the, you know, temptation. Oh, I got to be like John Lynch. I gotta be like Wayne Jacobson. I gotta be like Frank Friedman.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Right?
[00:14:15] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So God manifests himself to people through people, and. And we get to be that vessel. And. And it's very easy to get tripped up. He talks about the Styrofoam cup, you know, like, when the container tries to be the contents. And he says in here, like, what would it be like for you to take a bite of that Styrofoam cup and to chew on it?
Not very good.
And we're not the contents. Like, we're. We're not the ones that. We don't produce the life. We only express it. That's what he goes on to say. We don't. We don't produce the life. Only God can produce the life. But we can express the life.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: We bear. We bear fruit. Right?
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: Bear it. We don't produce it.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, yeah. It's very. It's very, very clear.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: And so he uses. He uses a really cool word. Yeah. And then, you know, before we started recording, I use a different word. But if. If we think we're a liability and how the Father sees us, he calls us a vessel for him.
[00:15:15] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: And when you think about that phrase that we're vessels for him.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: What. How does that relate to asset or viability in your mind?
[00:15:25] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, man, it always goes back to how did I used to think of it? How do I think?
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Right, right, right, right, Correct.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: Because. Yeah. I mean, I've always even grabbed at that verse that we are a temple of the Holy Spirit. I always.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Kind of knew about this truth that. That I'm this vessel that God works through.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: But I don't think I could fully understand it without revelation from God to know that I truly am. Like 2 Corinthians 5, 17, a new creation, and how it's. Because of Galatians 2:20, I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And so. I don't know. I'm not really answering your question. What was the question?
[00:16:10] Speaker B: No, just. Just the fact that we. We see ourselves as. We can see ourselves as a liability yet how the terms that God uses in Scripture. Yeah. Would be an asset, like a vessel, like A vessel for him.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: And. And the word I used was ambassador.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: So if I'm an ambassador.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Huge.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: The, the. The who I'm representing.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: Has endorsed me.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Yes.
Right.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: And so.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Yes.
So good. Well, even just the fact that Christ lives in me, that the Holy Spirit is in me, that I am a temple of the Holy Spirit, I. All those things were things I knew about, but I couldn't accept or believe because I thought, no, he can't be in a vessel like me. Like, if you only knew this about me. And God is just saying, no, you're my ambassador. I love that word. You are my vessel. Well, we can only be that because we've been made clean and close.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Clean and new and close. Yeah.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: We're brand new creations in Christ. We are cleaned and we're close. And so he can. Why did he do that to us? Why did he make us clean and close? It's so that he could live in us and we could express him and he could, you know, be seen through us, as us.
And it's really a beautiful picture and understanding, for sure.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And so then even I love that, how it fits into the humanity aspect of it. Right.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: And again, like the earthen vessel, you know, we have this treasure and jarge of clay. I do think it is so beautiful when you. We can understand.
Yeah. That walking with a limp glorifies God, like weaknesses.
Right.
How we failed and God redeemed it. Not right. I've been a really good Christian, you know, I go to church, I carry my Bible, I show up three times a week. It's like, what are you talking about? It's like, no, but, but how God is redeemed or so through vulnerability.
Through vulnerability. Through, through this freeing confession of God himself. It's, it's.
I'm a vessel, so I'm an ambassador.
He even uses the phrase, you know, let us make men in our image, that we're not the essence, but we're the image of the essence of Christ in me. Like you.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: Like Frank Freeman said, be the best Zach Rasmussen of Christ and Zach Rasmussen. Right. So. So it's still you, your personality, your gifting.
Yeah, Yeah. I even think of, like this idea of personalities, you know, anything just up to, hey, your spirit's new, but you have the same personality.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Yeah, for sure. So it's so good. I, I love how he talks about rough spots. It's like, I remember I bought this. This was in my college days. I don't even know if you Remember Carl? I had this, this light blue little pickup truck.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And used to jump up on the front to start it, man.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: Well, that was, that was a green one. That was a different one. But in any case, it was just a rust bucket. I mean, I saw it on the side of the road for a thousand dollars is on the windsh. And I called the number and I said, will you take $500 for it? And they're like, yep. It was that pathetic of a vehicle.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: And so. But as a general rule, nobody wants to drive around in a rusty car because what does that say about you? How does it make you feel? You know? And so those rust spots are things that we want to hide and cover up. And, and I just look back at those college days, I thought, I don't care. It's a $500 vehicle. I just want, I just need to get from, from A to B. You know, it didn't always get me day, but at least I got to where I needed to go.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: But yeah, we always like to cover up those rust spots or, or further down. He says people can relate to you through your warts and your blemishes. It's like those rust spots, those warts, those blemishes, it's actually more relatable. He says they can't relate to your holiness. And that's that.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: Like, that's the ministry that we have is through that vulnerability, through that day to day life of like, you know, I'm actually struggling.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: You know, one, one of the most touching things, I. I connected with a guy, I bought a playground from him on Facebook, Marketplace. And then we got to talking life and ministry because he was in ministry. You met Joseph when you came down here for the, for the retreat in Florida. And it was like two conversations in. We had met, I think at a coffee shop somewhere. And like I would, I just shared. I just sent him a text before even our meeting and said, man, I'm just really struggling with some things going on with some people here and there. And he came to the meeting and said, man, I've never connected with anybody so quickly and I've never. Like, this is what we're all hungering for. Is this a real relationship that we can talk, real life that we can actually share? It's like I've only had. He. He said this. We just met. We had one other conversation and now you're sharing your heart with me, like this doesn't happen. I said, I know it doesn't happen, but when you find Trusted people that are journeying in ministry together. You just, hey, I'm gonna put my neck out there and whatever that looks like. But I just think this is a relationship worth investing in. And so you just, you stick your neck out there and it is, it is one of those things where you're kind of sticking your neck out there because it could bite you. But at the same time, it's like, hey, this is real life. This is what people really want. And it's relatable.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Right?
[00:21:29] Speaker A: No, that's because everybody struggles.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and it's when you, when, when you have these three hour conversations with these guys, when you first meet them, and you're just both sharing your story.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: And, and, and there's something beautiful about how God brings that encouragement in that moment. And I just want to. People can relate to you through your warts and blemishes.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: It's like, God, that you can receive glory from all of this.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: That you'll receive glory from all this to share how God has touched you.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah. We are precious, man. We're an asset. Everything. Everything about us he can use.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So good. So I think we had to close out our time, but I just want to close with this one last thing out of this chapter that is so good, that goes off everything that we've been saying that we don't have to be anybody else. We can be me, which is Christ in me. But I love this. On the, on the next page, he's talking about the fall colors and the beauty of, you know, color and how we appreciate color all the way until we become Christians. And then we're like, we all need to look the same.
And it's. I just love the way that he lays that out. He's like, we're grateful for God and his variety until he comes to live in human beings. And then we say, better shape up. You're not acting like the rest of us. And it's like, wow, that's. We're, we're missing it there. Like, we're not understanding that we can just be, you know, expressions of Jesus Christ in all of our own unique personalities and colors and ways. And it's just such a beautiful thing to rest in. So, yeah, that's it for today. Let's Talk Life. Episode 83Amen.
