Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: My thinking and my confidence level is that no longer do I live in the shame of poor choices. Like that shame is gone.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Because I'm a new creation in Christ.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: So there's still some guilt. Like, oh man, why did I do that? Why did I get angry again? Why did I lust again?
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: But I don't stay there for very long because I know that all I need to do is say, I'm going to fix my eyes on Jesus. This is, this is the truth of who I am, not that that's not me. You know, I'm dead to that. I'm alive to God.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Sure.
Sin manage. Sin management is all about principles or strategies of how we can, you know, deal with sin.
As true face has taught me and is teaching you.
This is what Bible says our only answer is, Christ, the shed blood on the cross is our answer. Just as it was when you were five years old. It's still the answer today and it's going to be our answer tomorrow. It never is it up tomorrow me.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Hello. Hi, Carl. Hi, world.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Hey, Zach.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Welcome, everybody, to let's Talk Life. This is our podcast where we talk life in Christ. No other place to find life. So it's kind of a follow up, I guess, from last week.
Last week we asked the question, am I responsible for sin? And for whatever reason or for whatever it's worth, I don't know, I just felt like maybe we didn't answer that question.
We had a lot to talk about and it was all good, but maybe just to dig a little bit further into that this week. So the bottom line is this is kind of are we responsible for where we set our hearts in our minds? And I don't know what you think about that, Carl, do you have anything to even start off with?
[00:01:43] Speaker B: No, just, just, you know, Paul gives us a choice. He says there's a choice every day. I mean, he doesn't use the word every day, but I take that as ongoing moment by moment.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Trust or not trust in that we can put on, we can put off. And so I think there's definitely.
Yeah, just this, just this idea of what grace is or what it's not. And, and it's. Yeah, there's, it's, there's definitely a response. I don't even. The responsibility is the right word. Yeah, but I agree, you know, right.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: I, I agree with that statement. Like, responsibility is the tough word there.
And it's like.
But I mean, on the flip side that if I do present myself to sin, the consequences are still going to be there. So in that sense, maybe there is some responsibility. Like God's not just going to wash it away just because, oh, he loves me, you know, like. Like I'm still going to have to face the consequences.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Well, and also, you know, we've parented or we've been parented or in the American churches, watch out, if you don't do this, this will happen to you. And so then we look again, going back to the cure. We look at God as this policeman ready to bust us instead of saying, you know what? There are times where I'm like that prodigal son, where the consequences and choices are. I'm sitting in my own big slop.
And so the consequence of sin can be sin.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: Loneliness, anxiety or depression or whatever it is, It's a result of my own choices as opposed to, oh, God's gonna strike you down.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: And so. Yeah, so I don't know if that all makes sense.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: It totally does. I mean, I think that sin is its own punishment. It's like, we don't need to continue to be reminded of how terrible we are. We already know when we screwed up.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: What we really need is to be loved.
And the reality is, from God, we are loved. And so how we approach even our kids or other people, how we work with people, I think is all very crucial. Are we just coming and saying, man, you're. You're wicked.
It's like, no, but you're not wicked. Like, we can't.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So sometimes what I do is wicked, but it doesn't mean that I am wicked.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: And so it's. It's a really fine line, I guess, there. And that's, I think, maybe the confusion. But here's. Here's a couple of words. I actually heard this first from Andrew Farley. He's got a whole series, and I haven't listened to that series. So I'm just coming from his title and my thoughts on that title, which I thought was really great. Well, I don't know what his title was, but my title for it would be this get versus let. And this comes from Colossians 3:15 specifically says, let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, so you can let the peace of Christ rule in your heart. Because if you're in Christ, that is your present reality. We have, like Hebrews talks about, we have entered into his rest. This is our.
So even. Even on our worst day, when you could think the worst of yourself, you could feel even worthless, but you are still even in that place presentable to God and loved by God. I don't know what you think about that, but I'll keep digging into that. Get versus let.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: No, we have a. We have a great savior in the union with Christ.
The union of Christ is not dependent. Think about this. Our relationship with Christ is not dependent on how faithful we are, but it's resting fully on who he is and his faithfulness. Yes. And it's beautiful.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: It is. It is beautiful. I guess my. My question, and maybe I'm just throwing us out there, maybe we can't even answer it, but why do we. Why do we go to. I don't know even how to ask the question.
Why do we go to behavior modification so quickly and let that be our focus all the time and just something to throw out there? And like I said, I. I think it's the only way that we were really taught because it was the only way that people were taught before us.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: Sure. And it's fascinating that the church that when, when. When Paul writes these letters to the church, every single time he calls them saints.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: You know, it's like. I think it's like five dozen times he uses the word saint as opposed to you sinners. You're saved by grace, but you got to get it together.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: And so in. In the.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: In the.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: You're in a high trust leadership course right now.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: And with true face.
And I'm just going to read you something from there that you're going to get to later on.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: The God. The gospel always eliminates behavior and performance as the basis of my identity. It always eliminates behavior and performance as a basis of my identity. I'm a saint because my identity is based on the behavior of Jesus.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: Right. That's beautiful.
It's so beautiful. Thank you for that. And when I think about these letters that Paul was writing, I think, well, the Galatians, the people in Galatia were, like, getting into false teaching. The people at Corinth were just getting into all kinds of wickedness. But he said he still called them saints. And so I really appreciate that.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: As well. And you going there. But. But this whole, like, get versus let, I want to hold on to that for a moment because I think there's another word, I guess, that rhymes with all those, and that would be set.
Setting is not about getting, it's about letting. If that makes sense. It's kind of a mouthful.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Setting.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Explain it. Yeah.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Is not about getting. It's about letting. So to focus on getting. It leaves us really exhausted. Wondering, have. Have I done enough?
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Have I done enough? Wow.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Am I enough?
You know, all these questions, and that's why it's so exhausting. But focusing on letting. Like that verse I just shared. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts because his peace is there. So focus on letting. That's actually a step of faith, which we call trust.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: It's us believing what God says about us and living from that reality. And so instead of trying to get something, we're actually letting the truth soak in and live and believe that and live from there. And I think that's a beautiful picture.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it is.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: That's a struggle to allow.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: To be willing. Right. As.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: As the rest of the gospel puts it, to be willing.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Right. For sure, man.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: And so when it comes to talking life, that's hard because we want answers or we want.
We want God to respond right now because we feel the urgency of this moment.
And so then we're not trusting and we start.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: And then we get ourselves in a mess. Well, and blame that. We want.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: We want results, and we want results fast.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: And the. The journey of trusting God, it's. There are results, no question about it. Because I think you. You can live from that rest and that peace. And you and you.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Are completely different person. And it changes everything.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: But it doesn't change it in the timeframe that you're expecting. And so that's what I think gets us on the treadmill of trying harder, and that ultimately just exhausts us out more. And that's where I go back to even the cure.
And I've been going through it with a group of guys again. And then I'm going through this high trust thing too. And I love the picture of how there's this mound of sin and the way that I perceive myself and God is that Jesus is on the other side of this mound of sin, and he's disappointed in me and the flip of the whole thing. And the reality is that he's not over there disappointed. He's actually in me. And he's with me. He's beside me, and he's looking at that mount of sin with me, and he's saying, it's okay. You're okay. Like, we'll deal with that, but we'll deal with it together.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: And. And you're okay. And that's a pretty. Because behavior management just says, shame on you. That's Jesus, you know, across the room with his arms folded. That's the mentality. But when I actually recognize what scripture says about me being in Christ and Christ being in me, it's a whole different picture. And that's the picture I want to live from.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: So that's rest.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right. Well. And that's what we were just talking, even off camera here, about just daily life. Like, sometimes our day doesn't go the way that we thought because family things have come up for both of us this week.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: And we both just had to adjust, and that's okay.
And that's the different journey, whereas before it was, nope, I got to be at this place at this time. I got to do these things.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: I'm too important to this.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: I'm too.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Right, right, right. And so now it's. It's a different mindset completely. Like, I can be at rest with the fact that, hey, you know, I'm just not going to go in today. It's okay.
I got to focus on this with my family right now, and that's okay.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: Right?
[00:10:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Christlike principles, Christlike priorities. You think about Jesus. What. What was his appointment schedule like? I mean, we. We think of ourselves as so important.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: That's so true.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Or how about Paul, you know, just go to the marketplace. I'm gonna strike up a conversation with someone, you know.
Wow.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: I love it. That's why I love Wayne Jacobson's mentality of just one anothering. Just journeying with people everywhere that you're at, wherever you're at in that moment. Yep.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Being present, willing.
Well, I know you also wanted to talk about something else in Colossians.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, going on, like, I think if we really embrace Christ as life, like we step into this intimate knowing, I think that you start to perceive even sin. You look at sin differently. You recognize sin in your own life, too.
And in that, we actually realize that only. Only God can enable us to not sin. And so that's what leads us to living from.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: His power in us, rather than us trying to do it on our own.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: So, I mean, I love, like, I. I put this question out there, and I don't know. May I just throw it out there? How do we not allow sin to reign in our bodies? And I think I don't have this scripture in front of me, but I think it's in Romans that he's talking about. This Paul is, in the words that he uses is to stand fast.
[00:12:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, yeah. And that's the answer to the Church of Corinth. That's the answer to. I mean, we say all the Time. Stand firm, be strong.
Peter. Using the same type of language when Satan attacks us, when he tempts us. Yeah, right. Stand firm. Stand firm.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: So. So what is it that we're standing firm in or on?
[00:12:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, what is. What does it say in Colossians 3?
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: For that, that mindset. Yeah.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: There's so much. And I. I think I concluded last time, you know, with reading that, because it says just in the first few verses, to set your hearts. To set your hearts.
And what is it that you're setting your heart on as the truth of this reality of who you are in Christ?
Trust in that. So to stand faster, to stand firm really means to be fixed, fixated, sure. Confident in this reality of who you are. And this is what I have to say, like, about even my whole life up until these last couple of years, for me, all of my life, really, up until then, I wasn't confident in who I was.
And so stepping into this new way of thinking and understanding what I have and who I am in Christ changed everything for me to recognize that it's not about.
It's really not about me at all.
I mean, it's all. It's all about me because I'm still me. I'm not lost in the picture. God loves me enough to still include me in his goodness and what he's doing. But, man, I never could see myself. I was always on this up and down roller coaster. And not to say that there's not still hills and valleys in life.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: But I would say that it's more like a kiddie coaster than it is a huge, you know, roller coaster. I. I hate roller coasters. I don't know if you like them.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: But as we get older, I hate them more. So.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know. We. We can focus in on the rules and regulations and all that stuff, but that. That's never brought holiness, you know, standing firm in this reality of who I am in Christ, that actually helps me to stand on. Like I said, my favorite verse, Titus 2:11 and 12. It helps me to say no to ungodliness because I'm already that holy person.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: I already am. I'm already connected to the Father. I'm already beloved.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: I don't have to earn it. Don't look for it.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So I guess another question is, like, what. What do we do with this reality? Like, unquestionably, the power of sin is broken, but sin still exists. Like, it continues to.
It can nag at us. The Enemy is still real. Right. There's still temptation and we can still fall into that temptation.
So what do we do with that?
What I really love and this is, I think what's really helped shape my thinking and my confidence level is that no longer do I live in the shame of poor choices. Like that shame is gone.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Because I'm a new creation in Christ.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: So there's still some guilt like oh man, why did I do that?
Why did I get angry again or what? You know, why did I lust again?
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: But I don't stay there for very long because I know that all I need to do is say I'm going to fix my eyes on Jesus. This is, this is the truth of who I am. Not that that's not me. That's, you know, I'm dead to that I'm alive to God.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Sure. And, and, and sin manage sin management is all about principles or strategies of, of how we can, you know, deal with sin. And as, as true face has taught me and is teaching you, this is what Bible says. Her only answer is Christ. The shed blood of, of on the cross is our answer. Just as it was when you were five years old. It's still the answer today and it's going to be our answer tomorrow. It never is up to me.
But yeah, if you start preaching that right, your church is gonna go, go to half at least.
And if you stop selling self help books in the bookstore, there's gonna be no other books left in the Christian bookstores because we love to manage the flesh.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, even just that thought is really intriguing because where are the Christian bookstores?
Most of them have shut down.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Well, that's true, that's true.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: And I think, I think that's actually a big reality is that, well, none of this is working.
So the very people that are kind of stepping away from the organized religion or whatever, people that have deconstructed their faith as term is, you know, they're not, they're, they gave up on the Christian bookstores long before they gave up on anything else because it, it all wasn't working. And that's actually just interesting to, to think. It is something that came to my mind, but this is the reality that the believer, the Christian has, has already died to himself as the point of reference.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Yes, correct. Yeah.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: It changes everything. No, no longer do I need to focus on how I'm performing or if I'm measuring up or not if I'm measuring and if, if that is my focus, there's no freedom in that. And so it only leads to condemnation. Even if I'm the only one condemning myself, that it still just leads to, I'm not good enough. Why do I keep failing? Or I'm such a failure.
But man, freedom is just allowing this reality of union with Christ to shape us. Every part of our life. Every part of our life.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: Just aligning our focus with that new identity in Christ is such a beautiful, beautiful picture.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: So that's some, some amazing stuff. I mean, I. I love Colossians 3. In fact, when I first got to Florida, the pastor here, Brett, I went to his home group a couple of times before everyone went to church. And I met him for the first time at his house and he was pre. He was teaching out of Colossians. And he happened to be in two and three. The two weeks in the road that I went. And I still just remember, even to this day, how much that just spoke to me.
And then I read it again and I'm just thinking, no wonder, you know, it's so grippingly powerful because it's this great and incredible reminder of. Of who we are.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: And that. And that we can say no to sin.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: So it's awesome. So I think that closes out our time together today. Unless you have a closing, closing thought.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: No, I just, just love that, man. Hard work and effort is not the gateway to our freedom from shame. It is the non condemnation of Christ in me, Christ in you, Christ in the listener. That is our freedom. That's. That's the gateway.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: It is totally, 100%.
Well, that's the gospel. That's the good news.
