Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I can praise God for my humanity because this was God's desire and God's plan all along was Christ in me. I'm the temple of the Holy Spirit, right? That's pretty, that's pretty amazing.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: When I put. When I trust Jesus, when I believe that he died, was buried, rose again for my sins, that I actually don't believe that I become holy. God says I'm putting my spirit inside you and I don't have to go clean myself up in order to receive it. Think about that. It's beautiful that he's actually one who cleans up, cleanses us. He's the one who washes us. He's the one that makes me new. And then he resides in me.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Hello and thanks for joining us. Zach here, Carl there. I don't know which side because we're, we don't have that, that view. But anyways, well, we're here talking life, life in Christ and talking the mystery of Christ in us, which is so amazing. Union, that's a real mystery. But with it we have revelation from God to know God, to know his love for us. Today our title and our topic is thank God for your humanity.
And so right off the bat here I have some questions just for you that are listening. And we're gonna. It's kind of dialogue about these, but just for you to ponder, what does that title thank God for your humanity? What does that stir within you right off the bat? Secondly, is your humanity something to despise or something to thank God for? And then this something that we're going to process through as well. How have you seen it before? How do you see it now? So those are questions we'll ponder together here today. And Carl, you have any beginning thoughts as we get started?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: I mean that the second question is there's humanity something to despise or something to thank God for. But because you titled it thank God for it, I guess, I guess that's what we got to do. And I think this is like such a great topic, such a great topic because this, there are people out there that will say, I don't like looking in the mirror. I don't like seeing who I am. And you know, a lot of periods of my life that I. That, that was me, you know, where, where if you only shave once a week, you only got to look at yourself once. You only got to look at yourself once a week.
And, and so just, just that idea of God gives me dignity, you know, God gives my humanness, sacredness, dignity, honor that, that, that I really am created in his image.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: That to start there is. Is something different. That, that's. That's sort of new for me.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: That's. That's how I would start it. What about with you? What do you think of your humanity in that.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: Question?
[00:02:50] Speaker A: Well, I mean, it was always. My humanity was always something to deny and to despise. And I only knew of myself in my heart as being desperately wicked and beyond cure.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: You know, as we've brought up many, many times. And so, yeah, that's where I would have always stood with it. I would have never thought that I could see it any other way. It's like my NIV Bible that I grew up with and stayed with for, I don't know, 43 years, I guess, was telling me that I had a sinful nature. And I just. I believe that. Wow. And that was really the teaching and the mindset and that I had until God really brought me to a place of knowing that. That no, you. You actually don't have a wicked heart. You've been given a new and beautiful heart and you can trust that heart and you can live from there. So. Yeah. Very, very much so.
I would say this is very backward thinking than what where I came from, where I was to thank God for my humanity. Boy, it's almost like that'd be blasphemy in my past.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: But now it's the most beautiful thing.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
Couple. Couple thoughts there. It's. It's like I didn't. Like we didn't understand union, which you already mentioned. You know, union with Jesus is. Was a mystery.
And so what we looked at everything was separation. Because the opposite of you, you know, opposite of united is separate. Right. Divided. And so the whole idea that somehow we're always separated from God.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: And not understanding the completeness and fullness of the gospel. And so that's. That's one. And. And then the second thing, as you mentioned, that my heart's wicked, so I can't trust my new heart.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: So we say the Holy Spirit comes inside us, but we actually don't even know what that means. We don't believe it. We don't understand it. So we still have this separation view of us and God.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Right, right. No, it's a great way of explaining it. I appreciate that a lot. And it is like anything with the Holy Spirit, it's almost like, I don't know, in denominational circles, it's like it's. Either it becomes the focus or.
[00:04:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Or the Holy Spirit is buried and hidden because we can't understand it. And there's. There's nothing in between. Wow.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: So I think that creates a lot of confusion, and that's also why even. Even the author of the very book that we're going through, the rest of the gospel, not that we're going through, but just that we're touching on today.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: But he was a Baptist pastor, and then he moved into a Pentecostal church. And it's like, there you have it. There's like, the big shift from not sure what to do with the Holy Spirit to now it's all about the Holy Spirit to where he finally came to just know who he is in Christ and could rest in the Spirit in him and Christ in him and live from there.
But he came to a place of just knowing who he is in Christ, and I think that's it. So, I mean, I love Second Corinthians 4, 7, says, we have this treasure. The treasure is the life of Christ.
We have this treasure in earthen vessels.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: And that's why like, this. This was God's plan, you know, so. So to think about it that way, it's like, I can praise God for my humanity because this was God's desire and God's plan all along was Christ in me, the Holy Spirit, Me. Me being this. This earthen vessel. But I'm the temple of the Holy Spirit.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: That's pretty. That's pretty amazing.
Wow.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: And to piggyback with that, it's. It's like God is holy. And so we look at scripture correctly that says only God's holy. And that's true. We look at scripture, you know, Isaiah, where he just, you know, falls in the face. We have scripture that he says, be perfect as I'm perfect. Be holy as I'm holy. And so we who are living after the cross, after the resurrection, after the ascension.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: We who are living after this new covenant has been made between God and himself.
Christ is the sacrifice.
I don't understand that when I. When I trust Jesus, when I believe that he died, was buried, rose again for my sins, that I actually don't believe that I become holy. And so God says, I'm putting my spirit inside you, and I don't have to go clean myself up in order to receive it. Think about that. That's beautiful, that he's actually the one who cleanses us. He's the one who washes us. He's the one that makes me new, and then he resides in me. And so there's something Beautiful. That that was. Has. Has been a mystery and maybe still is a big mystery to. To a lot of us.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: That claim to be Christian.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: So God can't indwell anything profane. He can't. He's holy.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: And so what he's saying is, Zach, you're holy now. Christ is in you. You've been washed. You've been set apart from me. You're holy, and I'm residing in you. And you didn't have to clean yourself up. You didn't have to make improve. You're. You're new. And. Yeah, that's something beautiful about that.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: There's.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: It's.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: It's so incredibly beautiful. I love that perspective. And even going to our first question that we kind of already answered. But what does this stir within me? Just going off of what you just said, it stirs in me like a sigh of. Of.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: Like.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: It brings relief.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: It causes me to just be at rest, like, knowing that I'm not striving for perfection. Like, I'm already this new creation. I'm pleasing to God and just even thinking about. Yeah. If I'm a temple of the Holy Spirit, first of all, that means that I'm clean, because he can't reside in anything that's not right.
And also, wow, it means I'm very close, too. Like, there's not this separation, like you mentioned earlier.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: You can't get any closer than united. You can't get any closer than having the Holy Spirit in you as this vessel and Christ in you. And so those are just very beautiful things that really cause you to be at rest. Trusting those truths, I think, has not always been easy. I think it's not easy for a lot of people because we've been so equipped to think otherwise. And we think of ourselves as wicked and ugly sinners.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Wretched, wretched sinners.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Yeah, right, right. So over and again, Paul is addressing these various churches that he was ministering to. And I just think of the church at Corinth above them all, because they were acting in ways that were very contrary to who they were, but he still addresses them as the saints.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: And that's. That's incredible. So, yeah, he might have had some strong words for them, but he also had some encouraging words to say, right. You are still saints. This is who you truly are. You might not be living out of that.
You might be presenting yourselves to things other than that, but it's who you are, and you need to be reminded. I think that's a very beautiful picture as well.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's awesome. So what I'd like for you to do is. Was there a paragraph or a section in this chapter that stood out to you that would be helpful to read as we continue our conversation?
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, man. Where to start, I guess, is the question.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: Because one. One of the things I liked about the chapter is he's basically saying all of us are created unique and special. And one of the things that we've done in the body of Christ and the church I would call, is that we want. We think uniformity is unity.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: So. So you have to. So. And I don't know if it's necessarily taught, but it's definitely caught. You know, whether it's Sunday best or whether it's, you know, we're in certain clothes on Sunday morning or. But it's. But it's. I gotta. I gotta aspire to be more like, you know, or I have to look like you. And I love that part of this is like, no, no, no. Your uniqueness is God in you. Like, he's creating with this great variety. And he compares it to going for a walk and seeing all the beautiful leaves in the fall.
And he's saying, isn't God beautiful? Isn't it wonderful? He gave us all these colors. We are grateful to God for his variety until he comes to live in human beings. Then we say, better shape up. You're not acting like the rest of us. And what that means is you're not in line with our. With our leadership, and you're not conforming to what we want. And that's actually not right. Not biblical and godly. So, anyway, that's what I wanted to mention.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: I love that. That is one of my favorite sections. And I love the whole thing. The chapter is called God's Precious Assets. And I love this idea and this mindset because it's so true. You are not a liability to God. You are his precious asset. And I think most believers live as if we're liabilities. And because we think of ourselves as just wicked and evil and. And God can't possibly use me. And it's like, well, how is that. How can that even be true if I'm a believer and Christ lives in me?
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: It's like there's such confusion within the body to not understand these realities of who we are in Christ. But then. Yeah. So I love this section was just so great. Our humanity is God's asset if we are meant to function on the human level, which is how God made us we can't deny our humanity. We can't deny. So instead of dying to ourselves, instead of dying, we can live. Instead of denying ourselves, we can actually embrace our new identity in Christ and live from there. It's like as I, as I even stepped into this, you know, almost three years ago now, I actually heard others say that, hey, it's not all about identity.
And I was like, I believe it is all about identity. It's like the second that I stepped into knowing by revelation from God who I was in Christ, that's the moment I began to actually truly experience healing, freedom and victory in Christ.
I had it all along, but I didn't know what I had. And so, I mean, I just love this because he goes on to say this. We don't like things that we think and feel.
And so we want to reject our humanity. But our humanity has to be part of God's plan. Otherwise how can we express Him?
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: He has designed us to express him through our humanity. So denial of our humanity is not the answer. And it's so backward. It's so contrary to everything that I would have taught and thought and believed in the past.
Part of why I just really love it because it's so life giving.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: Wow, there's so much there. I want to say the paragraph right before that foundational truth is to know you die with Christ and that you are no longer a liability. Having been raised with Christ, you can no longer be anything to God but an asset. He has accepted you. He is pleased with you. He uses you, lives through you, speaks through you, loves through you. Yes, you're an asset, not a liability.
Which again goes back to the language of wearing a mask or being vulnerable. Going back to this passage you read earlier, 2 Corinthians 4, 7. So when I know I'm an asset, I don't have to hide my failures. I don't have to hide my weaknesses or my struggles. That I can walk with a limp and be okay with it, you know, be okay with my thorn in the flesh, as Paul calls it. For when I am weak, then he's strong. His power is made perfect in my weakness, through my weakness. And so it continues to put me in a position of dependency, full dependency on the Father. Which is. Which is what he's always wanted. Yeah, but we don't have to pretend.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: We don't have to pretend, right? I love. He uses an illustration of a mechanic put a new engine in your car.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: And can you glory in your car even though it still has rust spots?
I Love the rust. The rust spots. He brings up. He brings up warts and blemishes.
And I love this. I'll just share. I think I read this to you already, but I'm going to sit here. Two people can relate to you through your warts and blemishes. They can't relate to your holiness. So typically, our holiness is. I think this is how you perceived it. And you can share if you want to, more about that. But our holiness is really just our mask. It's really just our pretending. It's the way that we're posing. People can't relate to that. You putting on your Sunday best and coming and all the way to church, you were arguing in the car and kids were fighting, but you walked into
[00:15:36] Speaker B: the church and you opened the door. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: It's like, oh, shape up, everybody. We're stepping into church.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Yep, yep.
Never better.
You know, just, oh, we're good. You know, the Joneses are good, right? Keeping up with the Joneses.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: So, so, so funny to even think about. But that's not relatable to people. What is related actually say what is relatable is saying, hey, we had a fight in the car on the way to church today.
Well, that connects with me because I was really frustrated over this. It's like, yeah.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: And I shared the story before we got on and is. Yeah, Dear, dear brother of mine, warrior, band of brothers guy introduced me to Wild the heart conquer.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Spear up in New Jersey. And I think it was like late summer. It was like August. And he came over and we sat in the backyard for probably three and a half hours and had a fire going. We just sat there and he was listening to my story and. And he kept interrupting because he wanted to share his story. And at the end of this three and a half hours, he said something I'll never forget. Never forget. I mean, he had been with me since I moved there in 2001. He said, you've done more for me in three months than you did in 19 years. And what a profound statement. But what his statement was saying is that you've given me yourself. You've given me yourself, your humanity.
Not the picture of who you were. Because the picture who you were, I could never relate to. So I can't relate to your quote holiness. And it's quote holiness. Because it wasn't Christ to me holiness. It was the mask wearing Carl, you know, but what he was saying is when you've given me your. And so I would continue to encourage any pastor, ministry leader to lead in vulnerability. To lead in vulnerability. Because the sheep, those that were leading, need to see it. Need to. Need to see vulnerability.
Not the mask. Mask. That's nothing but Christ in you with your warts and your limp. That's. That's. That's. Because that's the story of restoration. That's the story of redemption.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: Yep. Yep. Amen. And I will say that the people, you know, their flock, they don't even know what. What it is that they need.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Right. Because. Because I even have experienced it since I've been in Florida, but I've seen this all along, that if you do show a little bit of vulnerability. And like, I felt really discouraged this week, like, the pastor is up front sharing with his flock. I was so discouraged this week, I actually felt like quitting. I've heard those words from the pulpit, and I've heard people giving kickback to that, like, you shouldn't say those things from the pulpit. You shouldn't share those things with the church. And why is it that they shouldn't be shared? What is their mentality in even saying that is because, first of all, well, that vulnerability is really scary. People don't like change. They don't want to hear that you might not be there as their pastor.
The reality is they're putting all of their stock in you as their pastor. And that's where we're not really equipping the saints to know who they are in Christ and to live in that dependence on God themselves and not on their pastor. Yeah, it's all really backward. And so it's interesting that that is something that I've. That I've actually witnessed even in the last number of months with people that don't. They don't want the pastor to be vulnerable. But the reality is the flock doesn't actually even know what they want. Most of us as believers don't really know. I didn't know. I started this book all over again with a group last night. And the very first chapter is the one that. This is the first book that I read. Stepping into all this. And right off the bat, chapter one, page one of chapter one, he says, where is the abundant life Jesus promised?
Where's the life that.
That first page just caused me to stop and go, that's it for the last two years. That's what I was asking, even though I didn't know how to put it to words. But that's exactly what I was asking. And I was so thrilled with how God had a resource in my hands to help Me to actually put words to the very things that I was feeling within, within myself. That's. That's the direction of God. I mean, where it really began for me, asking God. Asking God to know God. And boy, did he open the floodgates and reveal to me all the things that I am in him. And that was, like I said, the beginning. Once I started to know who I was in Christ, that was the beginning of really being healed, being free, being just victorious in everything in my life. It changed everything.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: And being able to thank God and being able.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Flaws and all, blemishes and all works and all.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Even my rough spots, like.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: To think that God is not big enough or that his love and grace are not deep enough or that he didn't have in mind that we are going to be living in this earthen vessel. Like he's bigger than all those things. He's bigger than us. Even when we want to and do operate in the flesh, he still loves us. And that's a beautiful understanding to come to.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: He says, the Holy Spirit showed me that it pleased God to live in me.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: I had to be satisfied with me. I had to be satisfied with me because it pleased God to live in me, to make his holy dwelling temple inside me. That's. That's how we can thank God for our humanity. Not. Not thanking God.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Somehow we had a perfect life. Or that there were so many injustices or unfairness that God, even through all the trouble and the heartache and the hardships and the loss, God, you are. You're so good and you're indwelling me.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Yes. Changes.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Wow. It changes everything.
And we can. We can rest in that. It's so incredibly, incredibly beautiful.
So amen and amen.
