Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You have everything you need in Christ and trust that reality. And part of that is certainly the body and other people and having a community. But, man, what happens when community just completely fails you? You still have the power in you, and the reality is you already have the victory. And so stop living off of borrowed faith or living off of someone else's faith or trying to mimic or be like somebody else and start to trust. That's what Paul is really praying for, eyes to be opened for a spirit of wisdom and revelation. It's not this borrowed faith. He's not saying, may they see like I see, may they do like I do. But even Jesus is not about being like Jesus in the way that he acted. It's really, in essence, what did Jesus do? He trusted in the Father. So what are we to do?
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Trust dependency.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
Hello. And we say welcome to you who tune in to let's Talk Life. We're your hosts, Carl and Zach Cousins, equipping and strengthening others to know Christ as life. Our prayer is for eyes to be enlightened. We pray for a spirit of wisdom and revelation to know God, to know union with Christ, to know that being in Christ means you have a new heart and a new spirit within you. We're praying for you, listener. And thanks for, for, for tuning in.
So, Carl, hi.
It's always good to have you on the other side of the call.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: It's a pleasure every, every, every time we're together.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Thank you for hosting this. Thank you for the brains behind each week, each episode, with what's stirring inside you. And as we talk life, life in Christ and, and the uniqueness, Right. Of each, of each person that we're creating his image, there's no, you know, we, we always say, oh, there's no cookie cutter. But when you realize so much of what we called unity was actually uniformity, where you all have to think the same and look the same. And the, the. The blessing of unity, the blessing of union and understanding union that Jesus already created unity and that we can disagree. We can have different, you know, interests. We can have different.
It's beautiful. It's beautiful. And that's the body of Christ. That's the body of Christ.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. And I go back to that man. Everybody loves like fall is, Is in the air. Maybe not so much down here as it is in the north, but fall is in the air. The colors are coming. Everybody loves color. Everybody loves just the beauty of a sunset or the leaves changing. But then you have a lot of believers Especially in Western culture here, that they come to know Christ and have Christ dwell in them. And all of a sudden it's like we teach this mentality of everything is kind of brown. Everybody's got to look the same. Do this and look like this, wear this when you go to church, man, it's like we love color. And so Christ comes to live in us and then it's like, yeah, we all got to look the same like you just said. It's like, man, that's such a lie. The reality of that I can just be me and that Christ can express his. His life and his. His grace and his love through me being me and you being you. And so our interest can be different. We can even disagree on things and it's okay. And it's like we can just move on in life and just journey together and be those fellow travelers.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah, well, a couple examples of this from the world around us is the restaurants that used to have a lot of color and now it's just like this black professional look. I just saw a picture today of like a Disney store that copied that mentality where it used to be like colors and characters and now it's just sterile environment.
And, and, and we could do that with the body of Christ. And, and I would just say this, man, I was so blessed by you. I found this, I found these recordings of you on music from like 13 years ago. And, and it, and it was, and it was stimulated by the controversy, which we're not going to get into, and no reason to, but Ed Sheeran and, and, and I came ac across a three minute clip of just, I guess it was a concert and he just stripped down and he's just playing. Not stripped down with his clothes, but stripped down musically. Listener. And he's. And he's looping. Well, that just made me think of you and just how much I love listening to you. I just love listening to you. I've been blessed of just you being in my living room practicing, you know, or just, you know, before, before a pastor's gathering where you're just running through stuff. And I just love it because it's not me. I'm not, I can't, I'm not talented like that. And so, man, you, you blessed me in so many ways. And so even listening. And I must have listened to your music for an hour and there's only like four songs. I just kept pushing your feet.
And my favorite was the one where you did it live. It's like eight minutes long and just, just your Giftings. But again, it's like I'm praising you for who you are, not for what you do. Right. I'm praising you for who you are, not for what you do. And so much of our past was on what we did. We get our identity from it. We get our, you know, everything is. Is based on what we do. So once we've taken that away now, now who are we?
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Right.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Anyway, man, so those are just some thoughts I wanted to share this morning before we get into.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. And it is really interesting. I look back because I have dozens of songs, you know, that I've written and I look back and some of them are like, wildly just. Nope. I would read just. And do something totally, you know, just the lyrics wise. I just. Totally. Totally.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: But a lot of them are actually right on. And it's interesting because I didn't really understand how right on they were.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: But. But I was. I had a new heart and a new spirit was in me. And the longing inside of me was to live out of that new heart and that new spirit.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Spirit.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: And so it's just really neat to. To look back on that because I did too. I. I played through a couple of those when you, when you sent that to me and I said, oh boy, he's found my soundcloud that's hidden out there in the. In the dark web that I haven't updated in forever. And it's just like, oh man, I. I just look back and think those were. The times were just. I say that all the time. That, that time with me and my guitar and God was just the time of sweetness that I had. That was the time of healing and peace and my life. And so it's just, Just so neat. Yeah. I recorded a few things along the way.
I have people tell me all the time I should record more stuff. And it's like. I know it's just like a whole another. So we'll see. Maybe someday. But in any case, getting back to. Thank you, Carl. Getting back to the topic, it really comes from questions that I typically ask when I first sit down with a person, maybe walking them through and journeying through some stuff, specifically if I was counseling somebody. But I have the opportunity this, this coming weekend to go teach up in North Florida again. I did it last year around this time as well. And the first questions that I come. This is like a bunch of people that are really going through the ringer in life and really struggling with things. A lot of mental health stuff. And it's A Christian mental health place that's helping them journey. And so I'm trying to. I'm coming in as a speaker for the weekend to teach and to help align the gospel with understanding where they're at, you know, mentally and. And how there can be healing in what we have in Christ. And so I ask these questions, and I love the first. One of the first questions I come to is really, do you want relief or do you want victory? And so that's what our title is today, is just relief or Victory. You know, like, which one do you want? And it's interesting because I think a lot of times we like to just put a band aid on something that's a much deeper wound, you know, and so just because there's a band aid on it, we feel like, well, I'm. I'm good.
And in reality, it doesn't even bring relief.
So I don't know how that, how that sits with you, Carl.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: Even the, Even the ideas of relief and victory.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, go ahead.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: You can finish your thought.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Well, no, I mean, I was just going to say, like, I venture into the other questions that really kind of relate to the cure language, and I start to really journey with people to say, how do you see you and how do you see God?
And it's like, yeah, I love it. We just have Frank here and he has people draw pictures. That's what we do with our counseling. Stuff that, that I learned too, is we have them draw a picture and it actually gives a good representation of how. What they believe about God and about themselves.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: And about themselves. Yeah. No, I mean, even, even the parallels to relieve victory, are we just surviving or are we more than a conqueror, you know?
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Are we.
Are we. Are we just trying to get by, or do we have an abundance from God? Right. I mean, so, so even that mentality of relief.
Yeah, it kind of feels good, but I'm just sitting in it. Even, even this, the big picture concept of the gospel, which we talk about all the time, that we only understood forgiveness, right? I'm forgiven. I'm going to heaven.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: We had no idea what Christ is. Life, man. And so even. Even in that relief versus victory. Yeah, I'll take some relief today, you know, and so, so even like, you know, some of that while at heart, John, Elvis, language of. Okay, well, where am I going to go for relief? What am I going to look to for relief? Right? You know, performance, achievement, success, what, whatever. Or do I want the victory? Do I want. Do I want to. Do I want to Walk in victory. You know, do I already have victory and I don't even know it. Right. So. So anyway, so that's. That's what I would say about that. I mean, just great. That's a great phrase. Great question.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So good. It is. It's crazy because I think in Christian circles, I think you and me, even as, you know.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: We ministered to people previously. We were able to give people victory in Jesus. Like you said, it's part of the gospel, the forgiven part. However we follow that up, then, like, we give them this victory in Jesus, but then we follow it up with the how to's and the ought to's and the have tos, and we make that. We make the victory feel more like it's just relief. And what they really want is true victory and healing. True healing. Freedom and victory come from Jesus plus nothing.
Plus nothing. It's Jesus plus nothing. It's not all these have to's and want to's and ought to do. And it's crazy because I was challenged by this. Even with Frank, he constantly just says, just preach Jesus, Just preach Jesus. And it's like, right, wow. Can we really just preach Jesus? It's like, yeah, we, we think that we have to add to that. Like, well, but you have to manage your sin. You have to no longer sin anymore. Like, we think that we have to pull that into it. But the reality is if I just preach Jesus right, and, and there's a breakthrough in somebody's mind and the spirit actually, like, trigger something for them, they're actually going to sin less because they're seeing who they are and they're seeing who God is. Not because they're trying to sin less, but because they. They're beginning to know who they are. So I don't know if I'm explaining that well.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, that's so good. That's so good.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Yeah. So I love, you know, I, I go back to Ephesians all the time, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 3. That's where.
Where God really just gripped in my life, really started to stir and, and brought significant change to the point of resigning from church work and moving to Florida eventually. And, and just amazing when I go through that. And so I love it. I mean, I, I think in our notes, you know, I have a bunch of things just like in verse one to the saints, like, just. Do you consider yourself a saint? This is what I walk people through all the time when they're struggling just to understand anything in life. It's like, do you, do you see the reality of who you are in Christ and, and thinking of like verse two, grace and peace to you from God. Like most people see God as just, just angry, vengeful God. It's like. But grace and peace to you from God, right?
That's kind of a different picture of who God is. But. So I don't know if any of that stuff strikes you, but I wanted to kind of maybe shift into even Ephesians chapter three. But if you have something out of chapter one.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: No, just. That's good. It's good. And you read chapter one and it's filled with victory. It's filled with, with the, the victory comes in our identification in Christ. Right? I mean, our, our victory comes in our identity as, as, as a son. And Christ is our savior, is, is our, our living hope, you know, so to say.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: And so, yeah, Chapter one, man, that's, that's good. So you want to go to chapter three.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Ephesians three.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I feel like we, we've, we. We've talked a lot about Ephesians 1 and, and so I didn't know if we're just rehashing some of the same old stuff, and it doesn't matter if we are. But just what's fresh this morning is I went back to Ephesians 3 because that's the kind of the continuation of Paul's prayer from Ephesians 1.
And I just thought it was really interesting, you know, and let me get there myself. Ephesians Chapter three. And it's the last section of chapter three. There's a prayer for the Ephesians. I really start in verse 16. He prays a couple of things out of verses 16. And a prayer to be strengthened through his spirit and that Christ may dwell in our hearts. And it's interesting to me because it's like, well, isn't Christ already in us? And are we not already given a new spirit and therefore already strengthened? And that's true. We absolutely are. And that's where I go to Ephesians 1 to say, this is your reality. But why am I going there with people? Is because they don't actually see it. It's true, but they don't see it. And so that's. Yeah, I don't know. It's just something that's really fascinating to me. So I don't know how you feel about that passage there. Car on Ephesians 3, dude.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: This, this prayer, these two prayers in Ephesians are like so rich. They're so. So to me, powerful.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: And.
And I look at it, it's like, wow, I want to. I want to be strengthened with power through his spirit and my inner being. You know, we talk about flesh versus spiritual, you know, and yeah, I want Christ to dwell in your heart. I think Nikki, Paul talks about that in Colossians as well. Set your mind on things above, put on Christ. So, so there, there is a. There is a active aspect to. To this where I'm. I'm allowing it. I'm willing. Right. As, as Dan Stone says, what's our part to be willing. And so.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: But God's the initiator. He's the one. He is the one who is working. So as it says there, dwelling through faith.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: So. So that's for me, always thinking, well, that's the moment of salvation. But what if it's continued trust? Like, what if it's a continued faith where I'm continuing to trust daily of that he's my everything, that he's enough.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: You know, just those things you said at the very beginning, Jesus plus nothing. So those are my thoughts, man. I'd love to hear more of what you're.
What you're thinking.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: It's so good. Because isn't it. Isn't it Colossians that says, just as you received him, or is that somewhere else just as you received him, so walk in him. Yeah, yeah, it's like. Yeah, that's. That's what it is. It's. It's all faith. It's all trust.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: And what Christ has done for us, but also what he's done to us in making us a new creation.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: So I just. I think that's just so, so amazing. I mean, I really look at Ephesians 3 as a continuation. That prayer isn't a continuation from Paul's prayer. It's almost like a preacher's prayer. You know, he starts to pray and then he begins preaching again. And then he gets. He gets back to praying.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Oh, that's false.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: I think that's exactly what's happening here with Paul. So he's really.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree with you. It's chapter two, sort of a parenthetical statement of how we're saved, you know, or what Christ has done. The riches of Christ and this and that, and. And then he gets back to this prayer.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: Right?
Yeah, yeah. It's a typical preacher continued prayer.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: I like that.
And, and again, like, Even so, verse 18, that we may have strength to comprehend. And again, this is so crazy. Because this is, this is our prayer. God, give us strength to do what you want us to do today. God, give us the strength to be your people. Give us the strength to go and be your witnesses to the end of the earth.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: This is what he says, that you have strength to comprehend with all the saints. So was it breadth and length and height and depth and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge?
Right, exactly. Like I'm, I'm like, I'm like in the Bible Belt. Not the belt part, because I heard that's other parts, but I'm in the Bible belt and where knowledge is king. The pursuit of knowledge. I mean, sort of the background that the circles that, you know, that I swam in was all about knowledge. So superior, superior theology.
And again, you know, people don't like when I say things like that, but theology, obviously the study of God. But what we do is we're like John chapter five, we search the Scriptures thinking that in them they have life. But I don't come to Christ to have it. So I can know all about Christ.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: And not experience him. And so Paul is saying this love is to be experienced because it's greater, it surpasses knowledge. That's, that's my take. I don't know how you read it.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: No. 100% right there with you for sure. When I, when I think about love, I think that love is something that we cannot define, is we can't wrap our minds around love. And then, then you recognize, well, Scripture says that God is love and God is indescribable.
And so there's no way we can really define and put words to this reality. But it is something that in Christ we can experience. And that's what Paul is really praying for. The saints, that they would know and they would experience this life, this abundant life that is in Christ, and that you have it, that it is your present reality and you can trust these truths. And the more that you trust these truths, the more that it transforms your life. That's, that's the true face thing that that truth trusted transforms. And it's so, so incredibly beautiful. And, and I love that, you know, it says in verse 17 that you can be rooted and established in love. And, and I, I go back to John 13, you know, as, as I have loved you, so love one another.
It's like the, the beginning point.
This is the bandwagon. I think that we'd like to jump on as Christians, as ministry leaders, pastors, all along the way, we want to jump on this bandwagon of love God, love others, and make discip.
You really look at that and say, well, that's actually quite impossible if I'm not first receiving love from the Father. So when I look at John 13, I'm saying, as. As I got to saying, as I have loved you, so love one another. We've just jumped on it. Love one another. Love one another.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Missed that part.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And this is how you do it. You know, here. Here's 12 steps to, you know, better love people or to love your wife or to love. You know, it's like, oh, my goodness, I can never love other people until I begin to learn how to receive God's love. And then when I learn to receive, then I can be rooted and established in that love, and it just blows open the door.
The overflow is that I love other people.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: But even. Even Paul's prayer, that our eyes would be open, he just said, it's immeasurable. Like, he just said, it's indescribable. He just, like he just said.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: That we'd have the strength to comprehend.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: And then at the very end, it says that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Yeah. I mean, you just brought up the word fullness, right?
[00:19:52] Speaker A: That's abundance, right? I mean, that's what Jesus says in John 10. Like, I came to give you a abundant life. And it's like we can have. We have this fullness in Christ, but oftentimes. And that's where I always go back to Wayne Jacobson's wording of the way that he teaches, just living loved. Or. Or you could be living less loved. And it's like, so where am I at in the spectrum in life?
[00:20:16] Speaker B: Right.
Living love, Living less loved.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, so it's very beautiful, man. It just comes to life. It's so amazing.
And I love the emphasis, too. I think in verse 18 there of Ephesians 3 is the word power that you may have power. And it's like, because we do have the power. Because where does the power come from? It's. It's God. And. And where is. Where is Jesus? He's in me. And where are we? We're seated in heavenly places. Like. Like it's kind of this. This fully done thing, but yet we're still living in this earth. But we have this power to know, and we have this power also to love. You know, it's. It's re. It's a real, true and powerful and amazing fullness of life. And it's A reality for us right now.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: From within. From within.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: And I think a lot of times we want borrowed faith. Right. We want, right.
We just see what others have or we want what others have, or we're, wow, man.
I just thought when it's, when we experience it. Right. So Paul says that your eyes will be open. They may they have the strength to comprehend, understand, surpasses knowledge. And so it's something in the spiritual realm. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's our reality, but it's not the, the, the normal eyes. It's like the God eyes. It's like those goggles that you go back to one of the first podcasts.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: You know, it's just the eyes of Christ.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Wow, that's so good. I, I, I love that you even said that. That borrowed faith, it's like a borrowed faith is only going to bring relief.
Yeah, it might feel good.
It feels like we're, we're accomplishing something. We feel like we've, we've taken the next step, but it's just relief. And eventually that relief is going to wear off and you need something else or you need that other person to be their crutch.
And that's what we've done with, with ministry altogether is we think that we need these things as our crutch in order to make it in the Christian life. And it's like, no, you have everything you need in Christ and trust that reality. And, and part of that is certainly the body and other people and having a community. But man, what happens when community just completely fails you? You still have the, the power in you.
And the reality is you already have the victory. And so stop living off of borrowed faith or living off of someone else's faith or trying to mimic or be like somebody else and start to, just to trust and start to open. You know, that that's where, that's what Paul is really praying for, for eyes to be opened for a spirit of wisdom and revelation. It's not this borrowed faith thing. He's not saying, may they see like I see, may they do like I do. But even Jesus, it's not about being like Jesus in the way that he acted. It's really in essence, what did Jesus do? He trusted in the Father, so what are we to do?
Yeah, so we do the same thing. We trust in the one who's in us, who is also in union with the Father. And it's just, it's really beautiful. Wow. It's good stuff. So that's how we're going to close it out here. We don't want relief. We want victory. And the truth is, we have it in Christ. Amen.
