[00:00:00] Speaker A: Good morning for us, maybe not for you listening right now, but it's a good morning here it is a good morning. I'm in sunny Florida. Carl's up in sunny. Is it sunny up in Virginia? It was yesterday. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:00:16] Speaker A: All right. [00:00:16] Speaker B: I had to double check. [00:00:19] Speaker A: So we're here with let's Talk Life Episode 26, if I'm not mistaken, and we're titling that you want fulfillment. It's a question, big question mark. Do you want fulfillment? And, man, I think today is going to be just a genuine talk life thing because we're coming. Like I told Carl, I'm not really ready today. And maybe that means it's the best day to record. There's elements about life. You know, sometimes you just feel defeated. And I'll say that that's how I started my. My morning even is just kind. Things aren't all exactly where I want them to be, and. And I want to look this way or that way, and it's just like, well, none of that really matters. [00:01:08] Speaker B: And. [00:01:08] Speaker A: And the true fulfillment. That's what we're going to talk about is. And we'll dig into that here in our discussion. So I'm excited about it. I'm. I'm scared to not have, like, my notes laid out and to know, here's. Here's what we're going to talk about. Here are the answers to some questions that we've already thought. But I'm right, but I'm excited just to talk life. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Well, Zach, you're very relatable and to that vulnerability. Because who hasn't felt that way? Yeah, like, who hasn't felt. Oh, man, I got so many tasks. There's so many projects. There's so many things I got to get done. I don't know where to start or I started one and it's not working well. And I got two, three, four, you know, right there. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:48] Speaker B: And it's like, ah, what am I doing? And. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:52] Speaker B: And so that feeling ashamed or defeated or, you know, whatever it is, it just comes back to this. So then it's like, man, for me, like that fear, it just cripples me where I just. I don't want to. You know, I'm just like, okay, forget it. Try again tomorrow. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:02:08] Speaker B: I think that we definitely identify with that. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Yeah. It's good stuff. And I love that. That's something that I've really gleaned from you, is that. That I just. You. You said this. I lead from vulnerability, and you just. You just come from from that perspective of, this is. This is the real struggle. This is where I'm battling today. And that relates to people to, to the point where they can be like, okay, I can be at peace with what, you know, what you're saying. And. And I went to the feeling wheel this morning. [00:02:40] Speaker B: Yes. You did it alone. [00:02:42] Speaker A: I did. I was like, well, what. What am I feeling sitting right here on my desk. I just looked over at this colorful wheel. I'm like, well, so what, what am I feeling? And, and there's a little bit of, like, afraid, I think, is what I. Where I came from. So kind of maybe a little insecurity is in that, that fear and anxiousness. And so, like, it's. It's so valuable to kind of turn to that and just, just be like, okay, guy, where am I? Because there's nothing wrong with, with that. And that's where I'm at, too. Like I said when I started off saying, I feel defeated. But feelings aren't always facts, you know, and feelings aren't good or bad. They're just, this is where you're at and what are you going to do with it? And so it's. It's a great. It's a great journey. And that's where I can always rest in going back to even our topic today, fulfillment. Like, the reality is I can always rest, and I am totally fulfilled and at peace with who I am in Christ and also what I'm doing, even if I don't know the next step. And that's one of the most beautiful things I think about the whole thing. So, Picara, you wanted to talk a little bit about some stuff that we've been going through. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Sure. And I want to sort of set the table of. [00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Of what it looks like trusting God, which is kind of, sort of the theme of probably even the underlying theme of every week for both of us as we step into it, as we learn, as we grow and trust. [00:04:17] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:18] Speaker B: And. But I wanted to share a little bit of a glimpse of the revelation of the Holy Spirit, you know, that, that, that beautiful passage in Ephesians that really captivated your heart, like really captivated your heart, just changed the trajectory of your life, honestly. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:36] Speaker B: In my mind, too, even if I didn't understand it. [00:04:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:38] Speaker B: Is that it's that the Holy Spirit inside us is, is. Is revealing things to us. And, and so, so for me, one of the things our favorite author said, Wayne Jacobson, he said that God's always at work. I probably missed 90% of it, but the 10%. That. That I see is like, man, I'm gonna. And I. And I think that. I think that about my life. Like, man, I got. I'm missing so much of what you're doing because I'm preoccupied with my agenda or my ambitions or what I want. And it's like, I just. I want to give that up. So Friday night, I was sitting in a buddy's church and at a Good Friday service. This is recorded right after Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday, Easter in America. And I'm sitting in his church, and he has this. Come up front to put something on the cross. And I had a couple words I wanted to use, like bitterness and resentment. Just things that, you know, that come through your life that pop up from. From time to time. You're like, you know, I want to put those up there. And I'm. I'm in line. And. And. And all of a sudden, God says, I want you to give up control. And I'm like, ah, okay. I thought I was. I thought I had ongoing. Right? Ongoing. Someone's like, all right, I'm giving you control of this whole weekend. I'm giving you control of my marriage. I'm giving you control of my sons. And so this is. This is how God works in my life. So whatever. So I'm surrendering this on Friday, 24 hours later, I'm picking up this book that you and I are reading for a group, and this is called the Path by True Face. And I'm sure it's a book that we'll be talking about in the future. At length. And I'm reading the section for Monday, and God is just, like, blowing me up. He's just, like, showing me some amazing things, and. And we're going to talk about those things in a second. But what I wanted to do is just set the table of. This is how it started. So it didn't start Saturday night. It started Friday night. [00:06:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:40] Speaker B: When I wasn't looking for it. It was literally saying, okay, I'm going to give up the control of what I want for what you want. I'm giving up my outcome, God, for what you have for me. That's trust. Giving up what I want for what you want, Father. So I don't know what you want to say about that. [00:06:58] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, it's so good. It's. That is and has been the journey. And I. I just go back to. Yeah. Where I'm at now and how I got here, and all of it was just these steps of. Of trust and realizing that I never really fully understood that. And in the midst of it all, like, I wasn't fully fulfilled, you know, I. I love. I love one of the questions that this book starts with the path. The first chapter was, you know, what are you searching for? And I have to go back and just look back and say, all along I really wanted that abundant life. And Jesus speaks of it, and I just was always left with, well, but where is it? Why do I feel so up and down? Why do I feel like I experience a little taste of it, but then it's gone? And it. Where's this reality of this abundant life is, you know, so is Jesus. Is he lying to me, or is it just some game? And I. That's when I look back and now I recognize, you know, seeing really clearly that in. I was nine years old, in third grade when I received Christ as savior. And now I can look back and recognize, you know, I had that abundant life at that very moment. But I lived for 30 some years without really recognizing and understanding what I had. So I love that. I love. I think I shared that once, too, in our Monday group Zoom group that we're in together, that I think some of the most beautiful times when God is really speaking to me are not the times that I'm setting aside to be with God. They're not on the Sunday morning services or the. Or the Good Friday services. Not that he can't speak at those times as well. But the reality is, a lot of times when I'm typing stuff into my notes on my phone, it's usually because I'm sitting out at a bench at a playground, right? With kids screaming. It's not this quiet, you know, beautiful time. [00:09:20] Speaker B: It's Right, right. [00:09:21] Speaker A: And so just being sensitive for sure, to just, okay, what are we doing, Lord? What. What's next? And what's happening? And just. Just observing things. And it brings thought to these certain things. And it's. [00:09:33] Speaker B: It's. [00:09:34] Speaker A: It's a. It's a beautiful journey to just walk. Walk this out for sure. [00:09:39] Speaker B: Foreign. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Let'S talk Life continues today with a wardrobe change. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:48] Speaker A: It's literally two days later. Actually, we had technology issues and lost everything for the second half, but here we are. I'll at least put on my hat so I match a little bit from. That's right, two days ago. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Wow. [00:10:01] Speaker A: But we're talking fulfillment. Talking about fulfillment. And I was feeling defeated. I started off sharing. Um, and truth be told, two days later, I mean, that hasn't just gone away. Um, and so that's One of the most beautiful things and kind of a. A key point even to what I want to say is like, in the midst of my feelings this week, I also had this revelation that, you know, I'm still living out of past hurts. And. And so then we live in this world of expectations, and we're putting expectations on others or expectations on ourselves, right? And when those expectations aren't met, we're. We're falling back into that same hurt from the past. And. And so it takes. This is something that really hit me in this last day or so is that it takes time to heal. And not just that, but it takes time to even realize what it is that you're healing from. And I think that you can resonate with that really well, Carl, even from your story, it's like, right, you didn't even know. You didn't even know what it was that you were literally fighting, battling, right? So I don't know how you feel about that, Carl, but, man, I love. [00:11:14] Speaker B: That you said that because time gives us one thing. It gives us perspective. It gives me perspective, you know, And I even talked about it with a guy, you know, two days. I can't believe it's been two days. Because it's like, what. What were we talking about? Just because everyday experiences with Jesus, right? That he's doing something new every day, Every single day. And so I love when you look back and say, man, it was only two days. It's like, wow, circumstances didn't change. Wow, Jesus, look what you're doing in me the last two days, right? [00:11:48] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. It's so beautiful. And it brings me to a quote from our favorite author. We keep bringing him up, Wayne Jacobson. He, maybe he says, just maybe your growing discouragement is not the proof of God's failing, but the very evidence of his working. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Wow. [00:12:08] Speaker A: And so, like, it's in those trenches, the trenches of life, you know, difficulties, the heartaches, the frustration, those unmet expectations even that I just brought up. It's in those moments that God is really working, right? And this, this is the, like, the revelation. This is where God was really taking me in. All of this is. He's. He's in the midst of all those trenches and he's causing me to receive his love. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:37] Speaker A: Causing me to recognize. No, you already have. Stop striving for, stop expecting this or that. Just receive my love is what he's saying to me. And rest. And it's like, what's amazing is, like, your expectations still aren't. Are going unmet to A certain degree. Right. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:54] Speaker A: But I can. But I can still rest. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:57] Speaker A: And it's just so beautiful because that was the question from chapter one out of the path that I. That I touched on. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:04] Speaker A: Was like, what was. What are you searching for? Was the question out of chapter one. And I said already that I was searching for abundant life. And it was like I was. I was doing everything. I was involved in church as a kid. I was, you know, volunteering for things and a part. I was a key part of youth group and all that. And then I went to Bible college and I got into ministry. And like, all of it, though, kind of came up empty. And what. What it left me to do was to strive even harder to try to find. [00:13:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:35] Speaker A: What I was looking for, to try to be filled or try to be closer to God. And, man, it was just this. Yeah, I got to be more disciplined. I got to do and I got to do and I got to do. And it's like. It's a sad reality when you come to. To the point of recognizing that it has nothing to do with any of that. That who I am in Christ is dependent on Christ in me. Like, I've been crucified with Christ. I no longer live. He lives, man. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Jesus says that my yoke is easy, my burden is light. And that. That's a foreign verse to us because we're like, my life's not easy. I mean, this is hard. Life is hard. You know, striving and working. And you. You really think. We really think that we're building something for God. Right? [00:14:25] Speaker A: We're. [00:14:25] Speaker B: We're really building this ministry, building this church or reaching. We're doing all these things for God and. And it's exhausting. It leads to burnout. I mean, you look at statistics of pastoral burnout and, you know, things that we do when we're burnt out, we. We do things that you wouldn't do, you know, whether we. Whatever. Whatever it be. And. And it's like, wait, those aren't Jesus burdens we're carrying. Right, Right. So I'm searching for these things, but I'm. I'm actually missing the one. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Wow. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Who is calling us to drink from, you know, that. That he's the right. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. That's so good. And we're coming off of the, you know, holiday of Easter and Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday. And I don't know if car. You want to get into this, but you had asked a question in our discussion about how does the resurrection of Jesus help. Help us? [00:15:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yeah. [00:15:26] Speaker A: And I think it's valuable to touch on that, first of all, not because Easter was just here. [00:15:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:31] Speaker A: But this is. This is even how I. I look at Easter. Like, yeah, it's such a powerful a message, but the reality is that's our message every single day. [00:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:41] Speaker A: Like. Like that's our hope. [00:15:42] Speaker B: Right? Right. [00:15:43] Speaker A: That's. That's our day in and day out. That's everything. [00:15:45] Speaker B: Right. And you and I were talking last week and. And I was just sharing. Like, I'm. I'm not looking forward to it because of what we've made it. I. I love every day. I love every day. Is Jesus day. Every day is Christ in me every day. It's his power of the resurrection is inside each one of us as a believer. And so in this book, what does this really mean? What. So what does this mean? And that's the question of our life. So Jesus died, was buried, and rose again. Okay, what does that have to do with me trying to pay the mortgage or trying to pay the bills or struggling with the sin or whatever it may be? How is that. How does that have anything to do. So then we just compartmentalize our lives where Sunday morning, I can feel a certain way, and it has no bearing on my life the rest of the week. And so the question is, what does this really mean for me? And I just love going from John. I think it's John 4. Everyone who drinks this water in the well is going to be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. And then right from the book, Jesus is talking about the things we chase that always seem to come up short. The next thing, or friendship or partner or city or job, or if I just. Let's church, right. How many. We just. If we just find the right church, then we'll get our life together. [00:16:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:57] Speaker B: That's often the case. And whether you're pastor or just someone who's going to church. Right. And. And Jesus is saying, hey, you want fulfillment? It's me. It's in me. And he's the peace, and he's the fulfillment, and he's the rest we're longing for. He is the well that never runs dry. And it's not a trickle. That depends on our behaviors. It's not a water pump or we, you know, the old water pump where you pump it and then the water comes out. So the more we work, the more we get Jesus. And it's a gushing, drenching fountain of love not found. So here it is. Not found in Our learning, the knowledge, it's not found in our earning like I deserve something or striving. It's only found in our receiving what Jesus did for us. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Right? Yeah, man. It's so incredibly good. [00:17:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker A: And. And I'm just, I'm going back to all of these questions that, that you were going to ask. And I'm asking them because we only have a couple minutes left. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:58] Speaker A: But it's so crucial because understanding what you just said, when did that happen for you? When did you take that leap? Is one of the questions that you wanted to talk about. Because that's what this whole chapter, that's what chapter two is. Out of the path is the leap. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:14] Speaker A: And. And the video that goes along with it is Jesus in this character holding hands and just taking this leap together. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:21] Speaker A: And so you threw that question out there. When did you actually take that leap? That's an intriguing question. What do you think, Carl? [00:18:28] Speaker B: The ten second answer is right here. When I came to the end of myself. [00:18:34] Speaker A: Yes, right, right. [00:18:37] Speaker B: Only to find life and love by Jesus. [00:18:39] Speaker A: Yeah, right. For sure. And that, man, you started by even sharing and about Ephesians 1 and this revelation. [00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:52] Speaker A: And it was like. Yeah. When I got saved when I was nine years old in third grade, there was salvation, but I didn't understand what meant to have Christ as life. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:06] Speaker A: And so it wasn't until 30 some years later that I, that I prayed that prayer out of Ephesians when God opened my eyes. And so it's such a beautiful thing. It's such a beautiful thing. I've. I always likened it to like Indiana Jones, if you're familiar with that. I grew up watching Indiana Jones all the time. And here he's got this, this, his father's journal. And he's, he's following all these steps and he gets to this leap of faith. And it wasn't like he's feeling out there trying to test the water. Can I stop? He just literally takes a leap of faith. Like if this is net, he's dying. [00:19:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:41] Speaker A: And I think that's what, what it really is. And the other, the other thing that I always used out of movies is, is Aladdin. And I just love it because Aladdin is, is helping this, this girl. He doesn't even know that she's a princess yet early on in the movie. And he reaches out his hand to her and just says, do you trust me? And I feel like that's so much of what God is doing, like in the midst of all of the heartache in the midst of all the pain. He's just saying, do you trust me? It's such a beautiful picture. [00:20:11] Speaker B: How about you, man? When was the first leap? When was the first time you said, man, this is the leap. [00:20:17] Speaker A: It's definitely like out of reading that passage, out of praying that passage, out of that prayer that Paul is praying for the church, God led me to really take the first leap of really resigning from church work just a couple years ago. And for. For two, three months, even that didn't make sense to me after I resigned. And then it led to another leap of really moving to Florida. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:46] Speaker A: So those are two huge, you know, monumental things. So when I see this character in the book. [00:20:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:52] Speaker A: In the. In the video, taking the hands of Jesus and they're just taking this leap together, it didn't resonate with me right away. But then as I started to churn through it and think about it, I was like, that's exactly where I was at. And resigning. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Right. And. [00:21:05] Speaker A: And then now moving. So it's great stuff. Yeah, it's great stuff. [00:21:10] Speaker B: And you know what's great is that he continues. We continue to see the leaps. Right? We continue to see. [00:21:17] Speaker A: For sure. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:21:19] Speaker A: So beautiful. Good stuff. [00:21:22] Speaker B: He's fulfillment, man. Even. Even waiting two days to fulfill this podcast. [00:21:26] Speaker A: That's right. [00:21:27] Speaker B: Enough. He's more than enough. He's enough. [00:21:30] Speaker A: For sure. For sure. Good stuff. Awesome. Always a joy to talk life with you, Carl. [00:21:36] Speaker B: Same job.