Ep. 56 - Achieving or Receiving?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: And this really brings me to the point when I think about the word receiving, the question that I have is, why is it so hard to receive? Just thinking about, culturally speaking in life, I don't know how that makes you think, Carl, where that takes you, but I think culturally we just have a really hard time receiving. And even when I think about Christmas, it's like, we're going into this week thinking, okay, who is it that's going to be giving me a gift? Because I should get them a gift as well. It's like, of course we don't. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Yeah. If. If you give me a gift, I didn't get you anything, I'm gonna feel bad. [00:00:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:00:37] Speaker B: And so I gotta find out, did you give me anything? [00:00:40] Speaker A: It's the perfect. It's the perfect example of not being able to receive. We can't just receive a gift. We think that we also need to give a gift. Hello. We welcome you to another episode of let's Talk Life. And we want to say Merry Christmas. And we celebrate this week. We celebrate God with us. And of course, every week we celebrate and we talk about Christ in us, the hope of glory. And so I thought maybe we'd start by talking a little bit about that hope. Anything else that you maybe want to share in regards to Christmas, but. Merry Christmas to you, Carl. [00:01:15] Speaker B: Merry Christmas, Zach. We pulled out our Christmas shirts. That's right. [00:01:19] Speaker A: Rejoice. And Santa. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you got the Florida vibe. You know, it's interesting. And I think we might have talked about this a year ago, but how has, how has, how do you view Christmas now as opposed to in the past with everything, Whether it's performance, pace there, it's separation view of God as opposed to union, which is what we talk about all the time. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Right, Right. Well, I mean, so much of it is, is just off of that word hope. I mean, that's where my mind has been in, in all this. And that's similar to what I will share, even though maybe a little bit more. But that hope was always something that was really put off to the future. It wasn't something I could experience right now. [00:02:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:06] Speaker A: And so that's, that's why, I mean, we can rejoice in the fact that God with us and Christ came in the form of a baby. And we can celebrate that. And that's. It's all great, but me not understanding Christ in me didn't place that, that joy right now in my life. It was always something to look forward to and to hope for. And so it's It's a whole different context. How about you? [00:02:31] Speaker B: That's interesting. Did you feel like it was always out of reach or it was always like, still, still somewhat future? Like never for today. [00:02:40] Speaker A: I mean, I. It's almost like I knew it was because I think the Bible really kind of clearly says, like, this is, this is yours. This is. You have this eternal life. You have this gift. But I think that there's a huge mentality among believers that we can't receive that. And that's really. Even the topic of today is. Yeah, we're. We're so stuck in achieving that. We actually miss out on the receiving. And, And I think that's exactly where I was at. It's like I. I knew what the truth was. I could rest a little bit in the fact that, yeah, okay, whatever, if all of life came to an end, I at least have this hope that I'm. I'm okay with God, I'm secure. But I didn't feel that security. I didn't feel that sense of peace and joy. I didn't. I didn't feel the fruit of the spirit in my life, necessarily. Every day of my life. I would say now I live more at rest in all of those things. [00:03:35] Speaker B: So again, so what does Christmas look like now, then? At rest? [00:03:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It looks like every other day. [00:03:45] Speaker B: Right, Right. Then every day is a gift. Every day is special, right? That. That every day. I mean, not all of us live in Florida, you know, sunshine and beach. Fairytale. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:59] Speaker B: But every day's a gift, right? [00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that's a huge part of it is it's always like, oh, we get to the Christmas season and there is this. There's nothing wrong with that reminder. And let's, let's hash over the Christmas story and let's go through that. That's. That's all fantastic. But I mean, the relating it to my daily life every single day, that's what's different now is like that. That reality of that hope that we have in Christ. And I think that all along, I mean, that was always our emphasis throughout, even ministry was. Was always leading people to the cross. Even with the birth of a savior, we still would lead them to the cross because that's really where the hope is. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:42] Speaker A: But even that, in that mentality, I think there's, There's a lot of it that we just kind of stop even at the cross. [00:04:48] Speaker B: Sure. And that's, that's all we know. [00:04:50] Speaker A: That's all that's all we know. Right. So the. [00:04:53] Speaker B: Which is what we. We talked about that last week in the podcast. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:56] Speaker B: We were preaching truth. We were sharing truth. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:58] Speaker B: It just wasn't complete. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Just nothing full. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:02] Speaker B: So we'll come back to your thoughts on Hope in a second. And I just wanted to. I wanted to share because, you know, I like what you said. It's like, you know, every day is special. Every day is a gift. So it's not like it's just one day for me. You know, it's interesting is, you know, Bill Thrall, who co wrote the Cure with John lynch and Bruce McNichol and Bill Thrall, sort of probably the leading catalyst for a lot of the relational aspects of grace that. That we see and. Sure. Living out. And he said this, he said, if every time I read Scripture, the motive of the new heart is not to receive something new, they don't read it. In other words, that every time I read this, it's not a checklist or a duty or an obligation. It's saying, I want something new from you today, Father. [00:05:46] Speaker A: I want. [00:05:47] Speaker B: How can I see you today? How can I see who I am in Christ? My identity? So looking at the Christmas story, which, I mean, how many times have you looked at it, right. You went through it, whether it's a family, as a church, as a individual, you know, teaching so many times. Right. Youth and. Right. All the different avenues. Dozens, more than dozens. And so I just love that every time you read it, something new pops out. Something new. And so in Luke 2, for me, this is great. The wise, the magi, overjoyed when they saw the star. They overjoyed with great joy. And it just made me pause. What. What gives me joy? What. What am I overjoyed about? [00:06:25] Speaker A: Because. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Because I think that what I'm overjoyed about now is a lot different from what it used to be. You know, it used to be, oh, am I going to receive a great gift or am I going to get what I want? And now I'm overjoyed when I see God restoring hearts. And I'm overjoyed when I see God working in marriages, being strengthened and rep that only he can do. Like, so when I look at overjoyed, like, I just love seeing God work. So just like they saw the star and it was obviously supernatural for me. It's. It's in God. Heal the brokenhearted and set the captives free. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:03] Speaker B: You know the. Isaiah 60:1. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Sure. [00:07:06] Speaker B: So anyway, so that's. That's what I wanted to share with you. [00:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And I just, I love it because it is like there is that rest, there is that peace that comes. There is that like, when we're able to just live out of that joy. It's like yesterday, you know, my son Johnny and his girlfriend Caitlin were here for a week and, and I didn't go to church yesterday because I was bringing them to the airport at 10 o' clock in the morning and, and that was okay with me. It's like, because it used to be always like we look forward to, like these are the times that we're, you know, I'm gonna. And so I didn't go to church yesterday and this next Sunday, I'm actually leading worship. And even, even in that mindset, like, obviously, yes, I do have to think through, okay, what's that going to look like? What songs am I going to use and how am I going to, you know, what am I going to portray here? Coming off of you in Christmas and going into the new year, there's a, there's mind behind it, there's thought behind it, but it's so much less that performance. It's more just a rest. And okay, God, what, what do you have for me that I can share? Even as a testimony of what God is speaking to me? [00:08:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:15] Speaker A: And I, I love how you even shared that. And it go. I went back to even my text to you and last week just kind of journeying throughout the week with having guests here all week and not having a normal schedule and in the process of just kind of really being a little bit more chill, being at the beach a lot more, and I just, I just saw so much like a guy reaching out, just kind of hurting. And it's me being able to be present with them. Just seeing this partnership that's kind of happening with this guy in Pakistan, seeing handyman stuff just kind of happening and working out and just people even last week just contacted saying, hey, let's catch up, you know, beginning of the year. And we have these projects and it's like all these things, like, I'm not trying to make this happen. Like, I have all this stuff that's just kind of falling into place and if I, if I made it happen, I don't think it would have happened. But that's, that's part of the rest, you know, of me just being so overjoyed with who I am in Christ that I don't need to perform, I don't need to make things happen. In fact, when I get my hands in and Try to make it all happen. That's actually when it all falls apart. It's kind of like the complete opposite of. Of what we're really looking for. So I just. I really love that. Oh, man. [00:09:32] Speaker B: Thanks for sharing. [00:09:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I. I love this. I go back to, you know, Colossians 1:27 is the. Is the verse, you know, that my mind went to right away just as I was preparing and thinking through what we're going to talk about today. But just. Just hope. Just Christmas, old Christmas, you know. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Season. Just. There is so much hope. And. But. But hope has always, like I said, been like this future 10 or the way that I should say it is. That was only a future tense word. [00:10:03] Speaker B: That's a great way to say it, because there is a part of hope that is future. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:07] Speaker B: We thought it was only. Only future. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah. It's the only way that I processed it for sure. [00:10:13] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:14] Speaker A: And so when I get to Colossians 1:27, this is kind of my paraphrase version of it. God willed to make known this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. And so I just. I love this. You know, to be. To make something known means that something was not known or can't. Or can't be known without God. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:33] Speaker A: And then this mystery. I want to hear from what, what you think about this too, Carl. This. This mystery is interesting. It's a funny word, I just think for a gift. Mystery is a funny word for a gift. I don't know how you. How you see that, Carl. That's just something that I wrote down that I thought was kind of just comical. It's like, why is this gift a mystery? And I don't know how. How you feel about that or if I'm just. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, just. Just that. That word itself, you know, when we take mysteries, like there's clues and we got to figure it out. [00:11:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:02] Speaker B: The fuller sense of this is more of like a secret which kind of connects to gifts. Like if God has a secret and he's given it to us. [00:11:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that's beautiful. [00:11:11] Speaker B: There's no way we could have seen it. So it's kind of like by revelation. [00:11:15] Speaker A: It is. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Right. By revelation that, that we understand. A full revelation that we understand that Christ is in us. Yes. [00:11:22] Speaker A: I always go back to that with. [00:11:24] Speaker B: With people. [00:11:25] Speaker A: Let's ask God. Let's. Let's see what his Word says. Let's just explore this together. Rather than being, oh, I have the answer, or let me fix you. Let's just Seek God's face on this. Let's ask for his wisdom, ask for his revelation, and let's see what the Bible says. And so, I mean, we're created in his image and for true fulfillment. You know, the only way that we can really, truly feel fulfilled in life is to really live out of that true identity. And the issue that we have, of course, is that we're born dead. And so I think that's where the mystery is. It's like, I'm dead, and until I actually receive and I'm born again. So I was born dead, and now I'm born again. That's when this revelation can actually be made known, because it's through the Holy Spirit. And so that's when we get to that word, hope. In Colossians 127, it says hope of glory week. You know, we don't receive the same glory, but we are a part of. This is what I really love. We are a part of this royal family. Like, I'm a. I'm a child of the king. [00:12:25] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:12:27] Speaker A: And so it's just that. That helps me to actually take that Word. And as. As pastor here, Pastor Brett, he. He taught on. On this a while ago. That word hope uses the word certainty like it's a. It's a certainty. It's not a hope for something like, sure, I hope this happens, this absolute certainty in the finished work of Christ, and we can trust in that reality. And it really just changes everything. It really does. [00:12:58] Speaker B: And I was just gonna mention real quick, because the beginning. The beginning of verse 27, how did it read? Can you read that again? [00:13:06] Speaker A: God willed to make known this mystery. [00:13:09] Speaker B: God willed to make known. And. And so for, you know, in Isaiah 55:11, my words not go out from my mouth. It shall not return to me. Empty and void is kind of a more of a modern translation that I'm familiar with. It doesn't return, for God's word doesn't return void. But this is the next part of it that it shall accomplish that which I purpose. Yeah. God is saying his word will accomplish what he purposes. [00:13:37] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:37] Speaker B: So think about God's love. Think about the Father's love, that in his purpose, that he that is will making known. Is Christ in you, believer. Christ didn't use that Christ in me. [00:13:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Like that's. That's his purpose. So Christmas is more than just like, Joseph, Mary, baby. [00:13:55] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:13:56] Speaker B: It's like the fulfillment is Christ in you. [00:13:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:13:59] Speaker B: The hope of glory. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:02] Speaker B: Above me. Can't understand. [00:14:04] Speaker A: Right. And I Think there's a lot. I mean, I think that's, that's where you know. And I just go back to another. Another verse that I don't remember the passage, but that talks about, you have the mind of Christ. And I just go back to this all the time in my thinking because it's like sometimes I kick myself. I don't really live in shame over this or anything, but I just, like, man, I always taught that so wrong. I always talked about it as a challenge. Like, let's put on. Let's put on the mind of Christ. And then I read the verse, I'm like, why on earth did I ever teach it that way? [00:14:34] Speaker B: And it's like, achieving versus receiving. [00:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. That's exactly what it was. And I think there is just. There is this mind of God that is. There is a certain aspect of God that we just will never totally understand. And so, so you can understand for sure that way. But thinking the way God thinks, putting on is not the way to do it. It's like, that is the achieving mindset. Oh, I'm going to put on the mind of Christ. Like, no, I have been given this incredible gift and I have the mind of Christ. And so that's where we go back to the word trust. I'm trusting in this new creation that I am. That I'm actually pleasing to God, that God loves me. And not only that, but he likes me. Like, all those things are things that I never would have said before. And this really brings me to the point, like when I think about the word receiving, the question that I have always is, why is it so hard to receive? Like, just thinking about, culturally speaking in life, I don't know how that makes you think, Carl, where that takes you, but I think culturally we just have a really hard time receiving. And even when I think about Christmas, it's like we're going into this week thinking, okay, who is it that's going to be giving me a gift? Because I should get them a gift as well. [00:15:55] Speaker B: It's like, of course we don't. Yeah, if, if you give me a gift, I didn't get you anything, I'm gonna feel bad. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:02] Speaker B: And so I gotta find out, did you give me anything? [00:16:04] Speaker A: It's the perfect, it's the perfect example of not being able to receive. We can't just receive a gift. We think that we also need to give a gift. [00:16:14] Speaker B: Okay, so, okay. I mean, this is going off the rails. But as a mission support or a pastor or a ministry worker, that's Listening to our podcast. How hard is it to just receive something? [00:16:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:27] Speaker B: Out of love. So many things are conditioned based. If someone does something nice for me, well, I got to do something for him. Yeah, I gotta do. I gotta do something to earn it. So we take that relationship, we take what we see, and we take that to the Father and we look at that the same. Right. And so it's hard for us to receive fully what he has for us. We think that somehow we need to earn it. I need to prove it, that I was worthy. It's. It's a mess. When we don't understand grace, when we start, when we don't understand unconditional love, that this is the consequences struggle. We're not at rest. We're always achie. We're trying to achieve. [00:17:00] Speaker A: Oh, man. And it's exhausting. It's like, no. No wonder, man. Burnout is so high. Like pastors. And I say, even among just people that attend church, even they just. They get burnt out to the whole thing because they can't measure up. And we were never meant to. That's. It's the wrong mentality from the very beginning. And so. [00:17:22] Speaker B: So it's changing the mindset. [00:17:24] Speaker A: It's completely. [00:17:25] Speaker B: So I can come to Florida. I come to Florida and relax with you and go to the beach. But if my mindset hasn't shifted, when I go back from your vacation or your respite or your sabbatical, I'm constantly back in that mindset. And so it's actually changing the mindset. So like you said, every day is exciting. Like, you just talked about your last week. You just said, man, I did this and this and this and. Right. And it's excitement and it's. And it's at rest. Even in hurts and pains and suffering, confusion and lack of. Claire, you're still at rest because Christ is our second point. Christ in you. Yeah, I don't know if any. All this is. Is resonating with. With the you or the. The listener, but I think. [00:18:06] Speaker A: I think it's. It's right on. It's. It's so good. And I just. I'm coming out of. I haven't pulled much out of here, but this is Frank Friedman's books done by grace. And I just coming off of just exactly what we're saying. And also my question, why is it so hard to receive? One of the statements that he makes in here is that receiving humbles us, and so why is it hard to receive? Because of pride and. And boy, do we ever Live. [00:18:34] Speaker B: That's so good. [00:18:35] Speaker A: Just in a culture of pride, right? Like we're so self focused and we can't even receive a gift from somebody, like a physical gift from somebody without thinking we need to get. It's all just, it's just pride. And so it's just really interesting. And that's where, you know, Trueface using the word humility as truly trusting God and others with me, that's what humility is. It's really hard for us to receive if we're not able to really be humble. And I think those two things really go hand in hand together. But here's something that I thought even as I was pondering all this stuff. I've heard both pastors and I've heard also non believers proclaim basically the same thing. I've heard them both say that essentially they're not good enough. And they say it in different ways, coming from different angles, but it's the same idea. Like a non believer I worked with while I was in college, I worked at a golf course and this guy would often, we'd have these talks about the Bible. He knew the Bible better than I did, but he's like, but I've been too wicked, I've been too bad in my life, I don't deserve. And I kept going back to what it's not, it's, it's not something that you're supposed to earn. It's just, it's a gift that was given, you know, and it, but I couldn't get him to even see that. And similarly, I've actually heard pastors speak to that idea in the same way that they're not enough or that their mission is to die every day, to die to themselves so they, so that they can be a blessing to God or to glorify God. And so in the conclusion of all that in my mind was, you know, just as I was pondering this, is that pastors and non believers are really saying the same thing, that I'm not good enough. And it's like the very gospel message says, completely the opposite. It says, I'm new, so I am enough. And it's not about what I've done. It's not about what I will do, good or bad, and none of it matters. [00:20:26] Speaker B: It's. [00:20:26] Speaker A: We have a hard time receiving, so we have a hard time believing this truth. And it starts even just with, with salvation altogether. That, that. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, in carrying that theme, the next chapter in Colossians, as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him. [00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Therefore, as you have. So you've received Christ. How do we receive him? By faith. [00:20:50] Speaker A: By faith, by trust. [00:20:52] Speaker B: By trusting. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:54] Speaker B: And. And I just. I just love it. So. So walking. Him. Walking. Right. We're rooted. We're built up. Christ is in you. [00:21:00] Speaker A: That's right. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Live it out. [00:21:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Exciting. [00:21:04] Speaker A: So. So last week, having visitors and having everything out of sorts and not having a normal schedule would have normally, in past years, that would have made me frustrated and feel like, oh, I haven't done enough this week to do this or that. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Anxious maybe. [00:21:19] Speaker A: And I was just. I was just at rest. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:22] Speaker A: Because. Because that's who I am. And I'm learning and I am still learning to receive. So even going back to the raising support, I've not done well with that. I haven't focused on that. And a big part of it is because, yeah, it is hard to just receive without feeling like, boy, I need to. I need to do something for this. [00:21:47] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:47] Speaker A: So. But I. I love this. I love. I. This whole book's done by grace comes from the. The verse Romans 5:17. And I'll just touch on this one thing, which I've said over and over again, because in that verse, Romans 5:17, are these two words. Much more. [00:22:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:07] Speaker A: And it's kind of like the theme of the whole chapter of Romans 5. Much more. And I love what Frank says about it here in his book. Much more is available simply by receiving it. The. Much more of God. The. The abundance of joy and peace and hope that much more is available to us simply by receiving this gift from God. So may we just receive that? [00:22:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Abundance of grace. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:39] Speaker B: And free gift. Right. Of righteousness. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Yes. It's amazing. It's amazing. It changes everything. So we're at 25 minutes and that means we gotta shut it down. It's always a joy talking life. And I feel like there's always never ending things to talk about because it's just. It's our daily life and it's so beautiful. So. [00:23:01] Speaker B: That's right. [00:23:01] Speaker A: Merry Christmas. [00:23:03] Speaker B: Merry Christmas to you, Zach, and to the listener. [00:23:06] Speaker A: That's right. Thanks for listening. And we'll be back at it. I guess next year is what it will be by the time our next episode will post. So Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.