Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Can I risk being vulnerable? Can I risk sharing who I am? Can I, can I risk it? Share openly and vulnerably with someone else and I receive love in return?
It is the love of the Father. It is the love of the Father through someone else to me, and that's counter intuitive.
It's like, well, all I've been ingrained in since I was young. Self protection.
Wear a mask. You wear your mask to hide hurts and wounds or struggles or failures. We think that what's going to make God look better if my life, my life's polished, if I have it all together, it makes God look great. Don't you want to be a Christian like me and have it all together and have all the answers and never have problems?
And it really leaves people lacking? Instead of being able to help, we can't help at all.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Hello. We are so glad that you're here. We have the joy and the privilege of talking life every week. And I would say that, you know, a small fraction of what we talk about here is actually what we get to talk about always. But what comes out in the podcast is always very much just a small part of really what, what's happening in our worlds and what we have to talk about. And I have to say, you know, Carl, I always wondered, how do these podcasters do this and how do they set up content and things to talk about? I would always, in my ministry days even be like, man, I get home, I don't want to talk about ministry anymore. I'm sick of it. I'm tired, I'm worn out.
But man, since God has opened my eyes to his goodness, to his love, the fact that he likes me, there's no, there's no limit to the things to talk about in that, that, that river of living water that flows through me is just so alive, so, so awesome.
I would say that along the way, sometimes our discussion is like kind of throwing out questions because they're still ponderings and things to question and not fully understand.
But at the same time as asking those questions, I'm kind of at a place of. Not kind of. I'm just at a place of rest, knowing that even though I don't know the answers, I'm okay not knowing the answers. So that's true rest, that's true peace. And so that's kind of goes into our topic, which is just one simple word, reset. And so I don't know what your thoughts are about all that, Carl, but,
[00:02:40] Speaker A: well, it's just interesting that we, we get together, which is Amazing in person, but we don't have time to record.
Right, Right. So we're. We're together on mission together. And it. Beautiful, beautiful. You know, last month had. Had an extended time down by you in Florida and you up here in Virginia for. For a short time, but on mission. And it's like, oh, man. We. We didn't have time to record, which.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: No.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: All right.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Didn't even think about it. So, yeah, we. We miss a week here and there, and that's perfectly fine. That's where we're not. We're not religious about that.
It's a great place to be. So that's what we're kind of talking about. That's where the word reset comes. It was actually my wife, Ina, that said call it. Call it a reset, and I like that word for sure. What we do together, as Kart was saying on mission when he was down here, when I was up by him in Virginia. This last week is just journeying with ministry leaders, pastors and ministry leaders. That is really just a getaway connect for 40 hours. I did the math, Carl. It's about 40 hours together.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: And over two nights.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: Just journeying through a lot of amazing stuff and sharing stories and just. So that's. That's what. What we're talking about. We call it like a ministry leader reset. And maybe it's a retreat if you don't understand the word reset. But. So that's the question that I had for us to kind of ponder and just to share about what happened last week is what was for you in that 40 hours that we were together? So I don't know.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: That's. That's really good. You know, one of the questions that we walk through in this, you know, wild heart experience, which is really just the wholeheartedness of living God's life. Christ's life in us.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Is the question, what makes you come alive? And I know we've talked about it. I don't know necessarily we've talked about it recording, but how much you appreciated our friend, our mutual friend Scott's questions of what do you love doing in life? And just that old mindset of saying, well, I need to not do this because I need to do this more or I need to do this more and say, man, Christ in me, I'm kayaking on a river, or I'm hiking in the woods, or I'm riding a bike. Gravity. Right. Whatever it's called where you're going down a mountain bike. Right. But that's Christ in me. It's living this adventure. It's.
It's communing with God. And so, so for me, what, what I love, you know, what makes me come alive is seeing God minister in real time. And so breakthroughs, AHA's connections, just. Just hearing from men, honesty and vulnerability.
That makes me come alive. And that. And that's like that, that Luke 22.
Jesus saying to Peter, when you return, so you're going to fail Peter when you return, strengthen your brothers. And so that, that to me, that to me was always, yeah, coming alive for me.
Right. Wow. God. And then, then there's also the idea of, all right, God, what do you have for me? What do you have for me? And, you know, so there's. There's some ahas for me. But I love. Maybe. Maybe you can answer the same question for, you know.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I'm just going off of what you said about Scott and like, just the word reset, even like any sort of retreat that I've ever done in. In my years in ministry was like, done a certain.
And I went for one day to a thing with Scott and it was so different than what I have ever done or experienced. And I honestly thought, this is weird. He's starting the whole thing off asking, what do you just. What do you love to do? Like, if you could just get away for a day by yourself to do something, what would you do? I was like, well, that's a really weird place to start.
And the more that I've pondered that, the more that I've realized that's who we truly are. And we can delight in that because that's how God made us. And that's also how God really connects to us. And that's the reset aspect. So for me, going up to central Virginia and going to a cabin in the woods with a canoe hanging from the ceiling.
The woods and the lake and the beavers. The beavers that were out there on the. On the water.
This. I've never seen stuff like that before. Is. This is amazing. But yeah, there's a couple of things I'm going to start with. The first word for me is. Is loved.
So what was reset for me? Or maybe just. I don't know if resets the right wording for that, but regardless, it's. I shared in Virginia and down here in Florida, you know, from the depths of my heart.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Good phrase.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: As.
As we both were profoundly impacted by the book the Cure.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: From John lynch and.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: And sharing in. In depth with. With others. I was loved. I wasn't despised or disrespected or thought less of. I was actually, I was loved.
And so it kind of leads to maybe a question too, that I've written down, like, why is there a stigma? Why is, why is it taboo to share at depth with fellow trusted travelers? You know?
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: There's just this stigma that, no, we can't do that. In fact, when pastors share their heart too much from the pulpit, they get backlash from the congregants saying, don't share that. Don't tell us that you felt like quitting this week. Don't share. Don't be vulnerable. And it's like, that's exactly what we need is to have people to share these things with.
So, yeah, I mean, and that's, that's just one aspect. The other aspect is where we talked a little bit already this morning about our wives. So the other aspect of being loved, I'm going to pull our wives into it a little bit because it's in regards to my wife. And so specifically, like, Christ in them, like our wives, Christ in them, the Holy Spirit in them, to empower us. Like, when you experience that. So that, that was me. That's part of my story. You know, there was a, like, to me, almost like a questionable thing, whether I should share this or not.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: And. And like, in the process of, of being able to even share that is to be just so overwhelmed with this reality of my wife's ability to kind of kick the devil, to make them shut up, to degrade those lies that I'm believing and to say those are, that's not true. That's not who you are. And helping me to trust that truth. And, and I know that in your story, your wife's response also to you was totally spirit led, and it was so restorative to you. And so that's what I walked away with, too, is just, I'm so loved. You know, like, to experience that from people just takes it to another level, even to understand the goodness and the grace of God, too. So.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: And that's, that's beautiful, Zach. And, and it's, can I risk being vulnerable? Can I risk sharing who I am? Can I, Can I risk it? And I believe we receive God's love through others. Like God works in the body of Christ today. Right. So. So when I share openly and vulnerably with someone else and I receive love in return, it is the love of the Father, it is the love of the Father through someone else to me, and I'm receiving it. And, and that's Counter intuitive. It's, it's. It's like, well, all I've been ingrained in since I was young. Self protection. Wear a mask.
You know, you wear your mask to hide hurts and wounds or struggles or failures. You just hide it all because we think that what's going to make God look better if my life, My life's polished, if my, if I have it all together, it makes God look great. Because don't you want to be a Christian like me and have it all together and have all the answers and never have problems? And it really is. Leaves people lacking. Like, instead of, instead of being able to help, we can't help at all. And so that second Corinthians 3, 17, 18 passage where it's like Moses with the veil and realizing, oh, it's with me. Me with an unveiled face, me with my mask off, which means scars and failures and weaknesses and vulnerabilities. So me with my mask off actually reflects the image of Jesus in Amen. His redemptive work, his restorative work, his grace, his love that knows no measure. And so it is opposite of everything we think, which is if I'm strong, God's strong. And if I preach a great sermon, man, and it's like, no, no, no, it's actually opposite. It's when I'm weak, God.
God's perfect. God's powers made perfect in my weaknesses. So that was, that was for me, a great, A great aha moment that when I have the mask off, actually God received glory and they see Jesus wear my mask on, they can't see Jesus. I mean, right?
[00:12:14] Speaker B: So, so good. So good. And it's so true. And I, I mean, I got to see it like in real time, you
[00:12:20] Speaker A: know, to write it. Right.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Share my story and then to split into groups where other guys would share a tidbit of their story. Yeah. And here I'm sitting with two guys that are just like, I don't really know what to share. And only for one of them to say, well, I mean, I have, I have this. And then the other guy's like, you know, now that I heard you now sharing too. Like, I have this. It's like. And it's this journey in this processing for sure inwardly to. Boy, I'm kind of just afraid to really be honest and real about this. But then I experienced that even down in Florida. It's like with a guy that I meet with regularly and he was able to come to me at the retreat and be like, hey, yeah, I've been meeting with you. But I haven't told you this, and since you shared, I feel like I can share.
And that's the best part of it. I mean, it's just really incredible.
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Yes. And I love it. And I love it that God just does something beautiful. I had a guy come up to me and says, hey, you know what you shared October 24th. I've been thinking about it, you know, and so having that space and, man, it's like, man, when you go through this experience, man, it is beautiful because it gets heavy. And it's like, if I don't want to go there, then there's still wounds and hurts and healing, you know, that I don't have yet. I'm still holding on to the hurts, and we're just coming out in bitterness or resentment or anger or whatever. And so.
So for guys to journey with you. Right. For guys to respond that way.
You've had months of preparation, if you know what I'm saying. Like, you've. You've been planning to say some of these things, and some of it changes as God, you know, but now it's my turn 30 minutes later, you know? Right. So that's the beauty of God, you know, just using your story, his redemptive word and powerful ways.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It's so neat.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Well, that.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: That's even the aspect of sharing your story. Like you said it. It does kind of evolve and change and. And not that your story changes, but just like. No, I can also share this.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Here's an aspect that I've never shared, too. Here's another part.
And. And that just kind of happens a lot of times in real time as the Spirit is just moving and guiding. So it's just so incredible.
And, yeah, I mean, I wanted to touch on one other subject, and it's a subject that you actually shared a bit last week on sonship, and I was just really fascinated with. I have a screenshot that I keep on my desktop, and I open it often just to. I don't use. I think it's the Passion translation of the Bible. I don't have it. Never used it. But when I read Galatians, chapter 4, verses 6 and 7 in that version, it was like, it just hit me.
So I'll just read it first. And like I said, it's off of the.
The theme of sonship that we're coming off sharing you sharing that on this last reset retreat that we had, it says this. And so that we would know that we are his true children, God released the spirit of sonship. Into our hearts, moving us to cry out intimately. My father, my true father. Now we're no longer living like slaves under the law, but we enjoy being God's very own sons and daughters. And because we are his, we can access everything our father has, for we are heirs because of what God has done. And, man, there's this. There's a lot. I mean, we could spend.
We could spend weeks just talking about this verse on a podcast, because that we would know. I mean, to know God, that's the beginning of my journey into this, was praying, God, would you give me a spirit of wisdom and a revelation to know you? And did he ever.
That spirit of sonship, like, what does that mean? That was a deep study for me to just, what does that mean? The spirit, Even going back to Ephesians 1:3 that I just quoted, the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of revelation.
Wow. And I love. You know, we've always heard this verse as abba, father. We've always understood that abba just means father. So it's like saying father twice. But I love how this version says that we cry out. First of all, we cry out intimately. And then secondly, it says, my father, my true father. Like, that's the knowing that goes back
[00:16:50] Speaker A: to the first part of the verse. Oh, yeah.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: It's like, now that I know this, I can really cry out intimately. You are my true father, Father. And so resting in that really identity, that sonship, that I'm a child of God. And that just welled up in me, coming off of that and adding sonship, which we haven't done before in these retreats. And then this verse just kind of popped at me when I got home, and I was like, oh, that's so good. Thank you, God. So I don't know how that. And I don't know if you want to share even a little bit about sonship.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Was that definitely such a beautiful thought? My true father. My true father. And we have access as an error. And so, yeah, I think that the idea of sonship and really, from. Really what's emphasized is the model of Christ and how he was dependent upon his Father, the things he said, the things he did. He says, I do what he tells me to do, and I speak what he gives me to speak. And what does that dependency look like in my life? Right. What does that dependency look like in your life? And so that was. That was really a beginning. Maybe it was sort of the beginning of the talk. And. And that's. That's just like, new. Like, I Just never would have thought, oh, what is, how can I depend on the Father? It was more of like, hey, this is what I got to do today, and I'm gonna go conquer the world for Jesus and I'm gonna build the church.
And it was like, right, what do you have for me? What do you got for me to do? You know, who.
May I be aware of who you're bringing about in my life? You know, so that, that was, that was, that was for me, just, just receiving. Right? The receiving of the sunshine.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: Receiving. Letting him father me, in fact, real quick. And then, you know, we can talk about something else or whatever you have, but this, this sonship Talk. So in 2024, I was up in New York and asked me to share my story. And maybe the year is wrong. Maybe it was 2023 and, and I had made it through the whole experience and I'm still sitting there going, well, I thought, you know, God, I thought you were going to say something to me. Like, I really, I was waiting to receive something and it was just like, oh, good stuff. And then we got to the idea of sonship and I was like, oh, man, there it is. Like, it just hit me, it hit me. It was almost the whole weekend was gone and it was like, God, am I letting you father me? Am I allowing you to father me?
[00:19:19] Speaker B: And.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Because that's what he wants. I mean, I think oftentimes we want to father God. We want to tell him what we want.
And it's like, okay, wow. So it was like, it hit me right when I needed it, right where I was, as he always does. He's so good in his love and kindness.
And so sonship has man a lot to me. So I appreciate, you know, you sharing how God was, was working on you.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Yeah, amen. Yeah. So it's so amazing. Yeah, just I so resonate because there, there are things I would say that since the first of the year, I think this, the word simplify has been like, yeah, what I've been hearing from God in so many areas and just, just one of them is like, I've kind of had this mission in the ministry I have now. It's like I have this mission to help others to see this, this revelationary truth.
And it's like, yes, that's my mission, that's my desire.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: But it's not me that does it.
So realizing that truly, like, that type of mentality and mission was the same thing that really burnt me out before.
So really being able to rest in who I Am being able to rest in where other people are at and just journey with them where they're at. I mean, that means it's going to be small.
So that means it's not going to be the masses. And it doesn't need to be.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: It doesn't need to be.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: And just, just coming to that, the simplicity of just letting God do. And. And letting God compel people through his love and me just to be able to be present with them and just to love on them. So, I mean. Yeah, I appreciate you too, Carl. Like, pulling me in.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: What?
[00:21:06] Speaker B: I don't know. October of 2024, I don't even remember it. First time we did this in Virginia and you said, hey, would you bring the music? And I'm like, you know, I've kind of put my guitars on the wall just for decoration. For the last year. It hasn't been my priority, has been my thing.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: And. And so thanks for that invite. But like, part of me was like, I don't really have confidence in this. Like, what can I do with this? What does this even look like? And so that's part of the simplifying thing that God really gave me on that specific trip. The night before it started, God said, create space. That was. Those were the two words. And that was. It reshaped my whole mentality of what it looks like to lead the music and to bring the music. Because. Because I hate the idea of being a worship leader. Like, I'm not leading you into worship. What is worship?
Worship isn't songs. It's not singing. It's so much bigger than that. So this is not worship leading. But when God gave me that, it just was such simplicity and ease. The ease of me to be able to just come and bring a guitar.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: And not. Not have to have it all planned out. I just come with 10 songs or so that are on the sheet and I can just pull from whatever one I feel God is or whatever one you might say, hey, let's do this song.
[00:22:24] Speaker A: You know, we just go with where
[00:22:27] Speaker B: God is at in our hearts and stirring in us. And it's a beautiful place to be.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: Well, yeah. And you're. And you're in a. You're in a different place where it wasn't about your gifts identified you. Think about that. So when my gifts don't identify me, my identity comes from the Father. Then those gifts can be given away and can be used freely because. Because I'm getting validation or my identity from it. I can just love. And so I. I'M smiling here because I'm thinking about how all these crazy guys up in Canada are singing your songs and, you know, and. And these guys that remember the song and it's like, man, we would have missed it. We would have missed all that. Now, again, there could have been something else. But it's like, man, when my gifting is not my identity gifting as, oh, I'm a great pastor or I'm a great speaker, I preach great sermons when I just say, God, my identity's from you. And then, yes, everything is so. I don't know. It's so much better, so greater, it's
[00:23:29] Speaker B: fuller, so much better. It's so much to weight off of our shoulders, but it's also like an effectiveness because it's not me doing it. It's God breaking through in people's hearts. And we just, we get to be a part of it. It's a great place.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: It's so amazing. So there we are talking reset journey with pastors and ministry leaders and Virginia, last week, it was such a blessing. And thanks for tuning in this week. This is let's Talk Life.
