Ep. 74 Living Out Of Another

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Most of us are going to go through hurtful things and what it's going to create is isolation. We're going to step into our little comfort zone of just hide and just cover and not share it, not talk about it. I have another guy that I met in Dallas and we have conversations every week, but I just so appreciate that he gives a call and just says, man, I'm struggling. It's like, man, that's the best thing that you can do. It's not in my normal personality, the learned behavior of just isolating, that's my go to. Thing is I'm, I'm hurt by something or I'm disappointed that I did something or whatever it is. It was always isolation. It was never, hey, I'm, I need to talk to somebody. And it's so different. It's such a different way to live, to recognize even God as, oh, no, I made a mistake. Don't tell dad. Instead to be like, hey, I really screwed up. I need to call dad. All right. Hello and welcome. This is, let's talk Life. Zach here, Carl there, and we talk day to day life and how the Christ life intersects with that every single day. The mystery made known Christ in you are our hope. That's from the first chapter of Colossians. So today our topic, our title is Living out of Another. So another way of saying that would be unity. [00:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah, it could be. That's right. [00:01:28] Speaker A: How on earth, Carl, do we explain union? How do we explain living out of another? [00:01:34] Speaker B: You know, I just had a great conversation with a guy a few days ago about union. And it's fascinating as we're, you know, diving deep into sexual integrity and just what our brain does and how, you know, renewing your mind can restore, you know, the years of locust age with, with sin. And one of the things I brought up is how Paul inspiration. Holy Spirit. Paul uses an analogy of sex with a prostitute to describe how they became one because of everything that takes place biologically, physically, when, when you have sex. And he says this is like, he uses that as a comparison of oneness that we have with Jesus. And so because of the context of the, the scripture, I never understood union because of the, because of the comparison with. He says, hey, if you, if you become one with the prostitute, you become one. The very next verse he says, he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. So in the context of that, he's teaching something greater, that when we have joined to the Lord, we're one. There's union and man, that's awesome. So how do you explain it? I don't know, but it's beautiful. It's beautiful. [00:02:51] Speaker A: It's beautiful, right? Fantastic. Awesome. Words you can't explain really is only by revelation. And so this is where I always take it in my mind and with others and processing, even what I'm writing and teaching. And like, ask God. That's really where it's at by his leading, by his teaching. It's only by revelation. And so, you know, the beginning of my journey alone has been asking God, you know, asking God for that spirit of wisdom and revelation to know Him. And that's. That's so different. So if I'm. If I'm asking to understand union, I'm not asking God in prayer to make me a better preacher or expand. Expand my territory and my giftedness or my ministry. I'm asking a completely different question. And that's where Ephesians one really says, to know him. I'm asking to know you, God. That's so much like. Like, put aside all of the gifts, put aside all the. The opportunities and the. The things that we can do, and let's just know Him. Wow. And he breaks through. He shows us. [00:03:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's so good. [00:04:01] Speaker A: So, man, Carl, I. I felt compelled, you know, to. I had a whole different topic, and then I switched to this because of you. So I just want to say thank you for being an amazing example of trusting Christ in you, you know, this week. So it's your story, it's your journey, and I'll let you share what you want there, but I'll just contrast, like, yesterday morning to yesterday night. In the morning, you sent me a note. [00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:30] Speaker A: The longest audio note I ever got from anyone. It was seven minutes. [00:04:35] Speaker B: Wow. [00:04:35] Speaker A: But anyways, you just shared, you know, stuff that maybe you want to share, but you concluded. And this is what was really amazing to me, with a line that I don't. I won't get perfectly. But basically saying, I'm sharing this heaviness with you because I don't want to carry it all weekend. And it's like, man, that's, you know, like, thank you for just leading with that vulnerability and just putting that out there. So that's how the morning day started yesterday. And the day ended with me actually doing a study on this chapter of the rest of the gospel that we're going through. And it was just amazing how those two things just connected. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:12] Speaker A: And so that's where God was just like, this is it. This is the topic for today. I was like, okay, so before we get into chapter five of the rest of the Gospel. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:21] Speaker A: You know. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. Yeah. [00:05:24] Speaker A: What do you want to share, Carl? [00:05:25] Speaker B: Sure. And it's like when you. When you are so far removed from experiences and then the narrative is controlled by other people, your narrative, your story is controlled by other people, you start to get foggy and say, oh, well, is this true? Is this, you know, the lies that are attacking? And. And so this, you know, this stems from, you know, just the mess of lack of good leadership and a lack of grace. I use the words deceit, a lot of deceit. And what. And what do you do with the situation where there's been repented sin? Right. So the sin's been repented. So you think about this. Yes, there's consequences, and I face the consequences. So what happens when people want to keep putting shame on you? And when people want to keep, you know, the. And so for me, what was this conversation with this. This pastor who had been at this church up in New Jersey, and I call it more of a family than a church because the church's people, the body of Christ made up of believers. And the narrative is, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And they were all lies. And. And so I'm sitting there pacing in the side yard, which actually isn't even our yard, but I'm pacing on Saturday night thinking, I can't believe this. This is seven years later. And, I mean, they. I think they've had five pastors since then, so. And I'm just sitting there listening to the story of my narrative, my story, and how, you know, there was no repentance. There was no apology. There was no, you know, just blatant lies. And I'm just thinking, all right, Jesus, once again, another opportunity to trust you. It hurts. It is painful. Everything in flesh wants to set the record straight. It wants to retaliate. Well, guess what I'm going through, man? What did we talk about last week? Romans 12 all summer. And so Romans 12, which is like new covenant living, you know, how does this. What does this look? What. How does this play out with each other? Well, Romans 12 is a good place to start. And I was just like. And so. So living out of another is all right, Jesus, I've trusted you to this point with me, with my life, with my story. And in conversations where, you know, I'm trying to share, you know, the righteousness of Christ in me, you know, the justness, as Wayne Jacobson says, the justice of Christ in me is how the Father sees me. And again, and again, I agree that's not a scapegoat for consequences. And it never was in my life. You know, submission to authority, submission to the church leadership, submission to the denomination leadership. Like literally just wanting Jesus. And I'm sitting there thinking, man, what happens when we miss grace? What happens when we miss it? We don't. We don't even. It's like. It's like that veil over our eyes and just responding with, listen, divisiveness and pride and outburst of anger and jealousy and division. Like, those are qualities of the church leadership and pastors all over the us, all over the world. And those are. Okay. Like, those are like, hey, good job, good job, Charlie. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Right? [00:08:34] Speaker B: You need to have thicker skin. And so I'm hearing things that just aren't biblical, just aren't biblical. And it was very confusing for me to keep. Like about every. Every 12 months, every nine months, every 18 months, these attacks come back in. And so then the enemy starts playing with my mind. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so it's like, okay, what's the truth? Oh, yeah, here's the truth. There was genuine repentance. There was great sorrow. There was great sorrow over my sin, over the consequences of my sin, over the effects of my. But I'm not living in that shame. I mean, it's seven years later, so I can talk about it without shame. Because Jesus took my shame. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Amen. [00:09:11] Speaker B: And so for me, sharing it with you and our mutual friends Scott and Vic, and just getting it out there to guys I trust, guys I love, and just saying, here's the reality of where I am right now. And, you know, so it was really. It was really. The heaviness was lifted. What did it change? It doesn't matter because it's not up to me to control and manipulate my narrative because time and time again, Jesus has asked me, just like, you know, he loves me in Wayne Jacobson's book. He's asked me to not serve my reputation, but to give it to him. And so that's. That's living out of another in a very practical sense. When there's slander and gossip and there's. When there's. When there's unrepentant sin against you, well, I can experience forgiveness. I can experience Jesus. It doesn't mean there's reconciliation because reconciliation does not happen unless both parties come with humility. But I can forgive for my sake. I can forgive for my sake. And so that's the process of forgiveness for me is putting it in the light where darkness can no longer hide. So Hebrews 12. So bitterness, can't commit. Because, man, I can easily go back to that bitterness of this sins that were done against us. Still. Still, you know, seven years later, not repented of not, you know, and so it's like, all right, God, I don't want to live there. I don't want to live in the land of bitterness, in the stagnant water of pond. [00:10:37] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:37] Speaker B: I want to live in the streams of living water that are in me. [00:10:41] Speaker A: Amen. [00:10:41] Speaker B: And that's my reality. So. So when I heard the word position or my position is in Christ or. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. My reality is. This is. My reality is union. Union. And the reality is I have the living water in me. So anyway, I don't know if. So you have more questions. [00:11:04] Speaker A: So. So amazing. Just. No, it's such a good word. And I think that most believers really do live with a mindset of being separated from God. [00:11:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:11:15] Speaker A: And that's something that's in this chapter that, you know, I wasn't even going to necessarily go there, but you can at any point if you feel led. But I just think it's so interesting because most people do that their perspective about God is all about separation. If I do something wrong, I've lost my fellowship with God. And I need to somehow regain that through doing what's right. And man, it's so different when you can recognize this reality by revelation. When God breaks through and shows you, opens your eyes to the reality of I'm united. I'm united with God in Christ. And it's like, that's a whole different way. It affects everything. [00:11:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:56] Speaker A: About how I live my life. So I just love that. I love and appreciate. Like, like I said, just you and I knew that you probably weren't just telling me that you're saying that to other people. And it's like, that's so valuable. Most of us are going to go through hurtful things and what it's going to create is isolation. [00:12:15] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:15] Speaker A: We're going to step in and do our, you know, into our little comfort zone of just hide and just cover and not share it, not talk about it. I have another guy that I met in Dallas and he calls often and we have conversations every week. But I just so appreciate that he's able to just. He just gives a call and just says, man, I'm just struggling. It's like, man, that's the best thing that you can do. [00:12:38] Speaker B: Yes. Right. [00:12:40] Speaker A: It's not in my normal personality that I grew up with, of A learned behavior really of just isolating. That's my go to thing is I'm hurt by something or I'm disappointed that I did something. Thing or whatever it is. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:56] Speaker A: It was always isolation. It was never, hey, I'm, I need to talk to somebody. And it's so different. It's such a different way to live, to recognize even God as like, oh no, I made a mistake. Yeah, don't, don't tell, don't tell dad. Instead to be like, hey, I really screwed up, I need to call dad. Like that's, that's the relationship we have with the father and we. [00:13:16] Speaker B: Well, I mean especially with you is with your children. Me with my children? [00:13:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:20] Speaker B: Like, like where would there be a point where you said I don't love you? I mean it's just. I can't even imagine saying that or even thinking it or feeling it. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:13:30] Speaker B: You know, and it's like wild and our Father in heaven, you know, perfect love, unconditional love and. [00:13:38] Speaker A: Yep. Beautiful. [00:13:39] Speaker B: So, so not just declared but, but I am, you know, like, like that. He does love me and. [00:13:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:48] Speaker B: Yeah. It's. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Wow. [00:13:50] Speaker B: So again, I think as we talk life, it doesn't mean we're not going to be hurt. It doesn't mean we're not going to go through excruciating painful things, you know, but it means that he who is in me is greater, greater than, than he who's in the world. And, and, and so when you look at, when you look at scripture, I mean this is, this is the apostles philosophy. This is their perspective that there will be wolves that come from within. Not, not that without. I mean, I mean outside of the. Think about this outside of the church. But, but within the wolves, within the current situation, both of us like, it was just like perplexed and confused and it's like, all right, that's, that's fog. I want to see clear Jesus. What you say, what you have. And that's a different way to live. It's, it is, it's a different realm and it's the realm of Jesus. It's the realm of his kingdom. And that's what. But, but Paul says, hey, Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm. May the Lord repay him according to his deeds. You know, there wasn't reconciliation between Paul and Alexander. Paul says, may the Lord repay him. And so Galatians 5 says, Watch out that you don't bite each other, lest you consume each other. And it's like, man, there's, there's something else at play here. And First Corinthians 2 says the spiritual man. Right. The natural man cannot understand the things of God. So all these things were coming to my mind of, like, my current context of, like. Well, here's. Here's why. Like, like, the. The natural man can't understand repentance and restoration and forgiveness and Jesus blood and grace. Natural man can't understand that. [00:15:35] Speaker A: No. [00:15:35] Speaker B: So, I mean, that's. I think that's. That's, you know, beautiful, that. That the spiritual man. And that's why Jennifer and I mean, we received so much love from so many people. [00:15:46] Speaker A: Amen. [00:15:46] Speaker B: It was. It was beautiful. And we still do. And so it's like, man. All right, Jesus, if I gaze upon you. Right. Gazing upon you. [00:15:54] Speaker A: Wow. [00:15:54] Speaker B: That's what you've asked me. I mean, going back to that John 21 passage, Jesus says, what is it to you? You follow me? Like, what is it to you? What they say about you? [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:16:03] Speaker B: Like, what do I say about you? What do they say about. What do I say about you? You follow me? [00:16:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. It's so good. I love it. I'm just trying to even process the journey that we've been going through just as a church and here with Brett. It's really interesting because I think that in some ways, we are the ones that have been labeled the wolves in sheep's clothing. Right. It's always. Can be so twisted. So that's where it always comes back to, okay, what does God say of me? And I love this prayer that I heard from Ralph Harris. He says, I pray this prayer often with God. God, what do you think of me? And it's like, because he might have screwed up, he might have reacted in his own interest, in his own flesh, and so he might be feeling some shame, and then he'll come around to God, what do you think of me? And it's like, wow, if my sin is as far as the east is from the west, and God loves me and loves me unconditionally, it's like, that's the only answer that's going to come from that question, is he's going to say, son, daughter, I love you. You're my child, and we're close, and you're clean, and you don't need to worry. That's a whole different mindset to live from completely. And so I want to just kind of conclude, because we don't have a ton of time left, but getting to Matthew 11. So in. In this chapter, he talks. He goes there, and this is where, you know, Jesus is saying, come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. And this next line is really where he asked the question, take my yoke upon me and learn from me, and you will find rest for your souls. So he. He asked this question, you know, the reality of maybe what we're trying to answer, even with this pod, Whether we are or not doesn't matter. Just the conversation is good. But what does the life of God living through us look like? And out of this verse, he's asking, you know, what did he mean by learn from me? I'd like to just kind of conclude with this because I think it's. This is living, learning to live from the life of another. It's Christ in us. It's this beautiful union that we can't possibly explain. I also can't convince somebody that doesn't understand it. It is only something that God will break through and speak and reveal to you. But all over, he goes to these four different passages out of the book of John. I'll just read the phrases. Chapter eight, he says, I don't do anything of myself. This is Jesus speaking in all of these. In John, chapter five, he says, I only do what I see with the Father. Again, John, chapter eight, I only speak what I hear from the Father. And then John 14, I believe if I can read my writing, the works that I do, they're not my works. They're the Father's work who dwells in me. And so when Jesus is saying, learn from me, he's not saying, do everything that I'm doing. He's really saying, live the way that I'm living. And he lived in complete dependence on the Father. [00:19:16] Speaker B: Complete dependence. [00:19:17] Speaker A: And let the Father live his life through him. He just let the Father flow through him. He learned how to live out of the resources of the Father. And so taking that a step further into where we are at, that, you know, this is what he says on the next page. The life of the Son was the Father. And the life of the sons, that would be us is the Son. We have Christ in us. And where is Christ? He is in the Father. And so we have this incredible, this beautiful union to, to really just rest in and to believe and to trust. And it changes everything. How do you live the life? No longer is it striving to look like Jesus. It's actually just learning to live out of the Son and out of the Father. And I think the beginning point is a key word that really has gripped me is to know, like the Greek Word is ginosko. It's like an intimate, personal, relational knowing. Like, it's deeper than just a knowledge about. It's to truly know. And I think the beginning point of all of this is to actually know. Where is Jesus? Where is the Spirit? He's in me. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:31] Speaker A: That again, impossible to relay to somebody that doesn't understand it. But that's where we just say, ask God to just show you union, because it's all over. Throughout Scripture. It's the verse that you even mentioned. The one who joined together with the Lord is one Spirit with him. It's like, okay, if I don't understand that, what's my next step? It's ask God. God, I'm not getting this. I can't process this. What does this mean? Ask him and he will unquestionably reveal to you exactly what that means. [00:21:05] Speaker B: And think about this. It isn't me plus it isn't Jesus plus my prayer life or Jesus plus my Bible study, or Jesus plus preaching good sermons. It's Jesus, and he is living his life in us and through us. [00:21:21] Speaker A: Completely. Completely. [00:21:22] Speaker B: And. And all those external things that we think, you know, that. That are life, are actually lifeless, you know? [00:21:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:29] Speaker B: You can get results. You know, that's what the author says. You can get great results. You can get. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:35] Speaker B: There's a lot of pastors happy. Right. Right this morning because they had a lot of people in church yesterday. And there's a lot of pastors that are upset because it was Memorial Day and the people were gone. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:21:47] Speaker B: And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's. That's. That's. No, here's your reward, Jesus, you know, he's our life. [00:21:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:56] Speaker B: And he's our reward. Wow. [00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. It's so beautiful. This is something that God really gave me as I was journeying through this. Just for me to help me process through this just about results. I'm happy that you went there. I started to call it the demon of results. And maybe that was just a really negative way of looking at it, but it's. [00:22:14] Speaker B: It's. [00:22:15] Speaker A: It's really just a true way of looking at it, because it is the enemy that gets us focused on the results, and that's all that we really want. And when we're focused on our results according to our performance, then we're actually forgetting the results of the finished work of Christ in us. And that's where we really are to look and to rest in. And that, you know, Scripture is very clear in so many ways that look to things above, don't look to earthly things. So I love that even out of where you were talking about externals, he says, right in there, you're doing all these externals, but there isn't any life in that. And I love the next phrase that he uses. The opposite of life is death. So if there's not life in it, then what is it? What is it producing? What is it bringing? It's bringing death. That's where so many. I even just appreciate just your analogy of the typical pastor on a Monday, you know. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Because we both been in that position. It's like, boy, yeah, it was a really rough day, or it was a really exciting day yesterday, and we're hinging it all on externals. And that's really just a lack of trust in Christ, in us. It's not living in union. And so it's so beautiful when we can process things differently, see things as they really are. It is our present reality. It's not some future hope. We have eternal life. We have been given eternal life. We have entered his rest. We have the mind of Christ. All of those statements, I have to say, I've taught them all backward thinking. There was something I was striving for, and it's simply not true. It's all things that I have. And so. And maturing is actually coming into more of an understanding that these are true and I can trust those realities. So, man, good stuff. Thank you for sharing your heart, Carl. And yeah, it is finished. Thank you. Jesus in us, we're new creations and we're trusting you and what that looks like for this next week.