Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: All right.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: Hello. And we welcome you to another episode of let's Talk Life, episode 40. Kind of a milestone, maybe, I don't know, in the podcast world, but this is a podcast where we do just that. We talk life in Christ.
Life is found in no one else. Jesus is the way and the truth, and he's the life.
So we want to explore today this mystery that's been made known.
So I just want to say hi to Carl, because sometimes we forget that.
How you doing, Carl?
[00:00:40] Speaker A: I feel. I feel. I feel accepted included. So thank you.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: That's good. How you feel about today's topic? Are you doing good?
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's. It's somewhat. It's somewhat of a mystery to me. I'm excited to hear what you have to say.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well, shoot. It's a mystery to me, too. So it is demonstrating mystery.
So, yeah. The question right out of the gates is this, is it really still a mystery if it's known?
What do you think about that, Carl?
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. And I would. I would say that there's, you know, so many things in scripture that I missed.
I know that you would say the same thing, for sure. And. And so I just. I just think that there's a lot of things that are a mystery.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: And in the greater church today. And so I think that it's kind of interesting that there's. That the scripture didn't change.
Like, there's not new things added or things taken away and edited. It's just the eyes of Jesus that our eyes are opened to receiving it.
Yeah, I think that's. That's. That's an interesting thought there.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: So. Yeah. I mean, why do we still even refer to it as a mystery? I mean, I think. I mean, these are just legitimate questions that I've thrown out there because I'm chewing on them myself, trying to understand.
So, I mean, if it's become known, which, you know, Romans 16, and there's all over the place, really, it talks about this mystery that's. That's been known.
And in specific, it's for us Gentiles, which is us and probably most people that are listening. I mean, I don't really know very many Jewish people myself, so it would really only be between the Jewish people and Gentiles, which is just everybody else.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: God's gospel was opening up, too. And this was the mystery that was being made known is that not just the Israelites were God's people, but anybody. The door was open for anybody. And God loves the whole world and wants all men to be saved. And that's the reality of this mystery.
But, yeah, I'm totally tracking with you in that there's so much of life and ministry. I think that I just didn't.
I didn't know. And I think the reason I didn't know it is because I simply didn't ask God.
[00:03:18] Speaker A: Who'S got.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: Once I did.
Right.
But once I. Once I did. You can't unsee what God shows you.
And.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: No, like, I just.
I don't want to unsee it, and nor can I unsee it. And so I see this revelation of what he's given to all of us as believers, but it doesn't mean just because you're a believer that you see it. Right.
Because that was us.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Right.
And so if you want to. If I would say here's a few. Here's a few of these, for lack of better word, things that were mysteries.
What does it look like to trust God?
Yeah, what does it look like to trust God? We say. Boy, we say it. We use that word very, very often in the church today. But what does it actually mean? All right, that's number one. Number two is, is I would, I would also add in there, what. What is the church.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: And, and, and I think that's a great mystery.
That, that there have been thousands of books written, I'm sure maybe hundreds of thousands of the church.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: And, and, and yet I still think it's a mystery today. I think trust is a mystery. And then the third thing is, is kind of the focus of, of a lot of today's conversation and going forward is. Is union with God.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
Part of what makes it all such a mystery is that we can't know the same way that God knows.
Like, we become we. This is, this is crucial. This is part of the thing that was in this book about a lot of misunderstandings about this understanding of Christ's life and the exchange life is that we've been. I think it's in Hebrews, and it's another passage too. I can't. It's not coming to my mind, but it says that we are partakers in a divine nature. Partakers. And so what. What does the Bible mean when it says it? It means exactly what it's saying. Nowhere in scripture does it say that we as human beings have a divine nature.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: But. But we are partakers in this divine nature.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: And so that, and that's. That's where there's a lot of. Yeah. How do you wrap your mind around this.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: It's our finite minds that we, we can't. That's kind of the simple answer.
So what do we do with it? And that goes back to the word that we do go back to often, even still is the word trust. But we understand trust completely differently too.
That's where I can actually be at peace not knowing things, whereas before it might have been a lot more frustrating.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And I know that some of the, some of the ways in which we learned isn't just from books, it's also from others. And so it's, it's, it's growing up and, and at Bible college and, and just thinking that people have arrived and if I just had some more knowledge that equaled maturity or that equaled arrive and understanding something. And in fact, I didn't, I wasn't in. Was I pursuing God? Did I know God or did I know about God? Did I know all these things about God? And I think there's a big difference. I think there's a big difference.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I was going to lean into was like, I go back to this often and I probably brought it up many times, but when I'm thinking about why is this thing still called a mystery even though it's become known.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: And to answer that is kind of another question, I guess, is, is it like referencing a reality? And this is a really big reality that Paul addresses that we don't know what we have.
And this thought really just resonates and intrigues me so much because the word mystery in itself, just, just by using that word, I mean, you think about like, mo. There's a whole series or a category of movies that are called Mystery.
Unsolved Mysteries was a popular TV program, you know, and like.
But just the word mystery makes you want to know.
And so that, that was just really intriguing to me to, to recognize because this is my journey too, of recognizing that my reality was growing up in the church, going to Bible college, then serving in the church. And 43 years into all of that, there was still this mystery to where I was saying, just like I read today in the rest of the Gospel, Chapter one, I was saying, where's the life?
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like, right, right here.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: I've been in it this long, but I, I'm left with this mystery to say, okay, where's the life?
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Well, sure. Because if all I know is that Christ died on the cross for my sins and I believe in that and be saved, and yes, that is all true. That is all true. But it's not complete. It's not, it's not the whole gospel as, as the author says in here. And, and I would say that was, that was for me too. I didn't know. I, I didn't understand. When Jesus says I am the, the life. No idea what that means. Like, like heaven someday, like so, so someday, just so we just gotta get by, we just gotta survive. We just gotta make it another day because someday we'll be in heaven and everything will be good. And not understanding what Christ in me means right now in my life.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: You know, and I would just say this, you know, we, you know, speaking of mysteries, Jesus spoken mysteries. His, his, you know, the disciples, like, hey, what, what is that about? Why are you doing this? You know, and sure. And even in, you know, I think you were gonn. Colossians 1. Is that all right if I go there?
[00:09:41] Speaker B: Yeah, jump into it. Go ahead.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And so it's interesting that, you know, when we even think of mysteries, we think of something that's, there's clues and we got to figure it out. Whereas the actual word was. Had more of a connotation of being a secret.
And so when Paul is saying, hey, Jesus in you is a secret. And I understand why you're saying mystery because it's 2000 years old. Why is it still a mystery?
Right. And, and it's, and it's, and so I'll just read it, you know, Colossians 1, that he's saying that, that, that he's a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you to make the word of God fully known. The mystery hidden for ages and generations but is now revealed to his saints.
To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
And then talking about how his goal is to present everyone mature in Christ.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: And so it's just, there's, there's just so many beautiful things here and I don't know what's, what you're drawn to first.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I just, I just, that word mature really struck me just as you were using that too because like for a little kid, I can't, I can't make them get everything, you know, like, like for a toddler, 4 and 5 year old at home, like they, they're, they're just not going to understand certain things and I can't make them get it right by Trying to explain it further.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: They have to experience that on their own.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: And learn how to do things. So it's like we have a swimming pool, and at first it was like, sit in this floaty thing and that was it.
And then it was, you know, put on this. This little life preserver thing with these arm things. And now I can actually swim by myself in the pool. But now without that thing, it's very scary. But if I just take them and throw them in the pool. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they would figure it out, but they would be so afraid to ever step foot back in the pool.
But I could. I could take it upon myself to do what I think I need to do for them to get it.
But it's their journey to understand it. So I really love that word mature, because just like a child matures and grows up, so. So do we.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I just. I just love that Paul is saying that. That the riches of the glory of this mystery. So. So, yeah, he's. He's really setting this up. Like there's riches, you know, you think of depth, I think of greatness. I think of, you know, sustenance, provisions from the word riches. Right. And the hope, the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you.
Christ in you. And there's something beautiful about that, that secret that he's saying that. That Christ is in you.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Right now.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Not that you have to somehow get it or, you know, it's like another level. It's like, no, no, no. He's in you right now. He is. He is in you.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And going back to your idea about it being this future hope, like, we always talk about eternity as this thing that we will someday, you know, finally be there. And we look forward to it, but we really. We are. We're left. So often does God even care about my life right now?
And I think that's where a lot of believers really are at.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: But then when you really step into reading God's word and he says that, you know, you can. You have eternal life now. And when you can actually recognize that Jesus is that eternal life, because he is the way, the truth, and the life.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: And Christ in me, as Colossians 1 says, it's like, yeah, this is a present reality. And I love the word hope here in this verse, too, in Colossians 1:27.
And I love how I recently heard it from our pastor here, Pastor Brett. He said that is. That word is best to be translated as, like, certainty.
It's not this future hope.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: It's actually this confidence and this certainty as to what I already have.
And that really changes everything about the dynamic of what I have in Christ. It's not some future thing that I can hope for.
It's actually a certainty and arrest in what I already have.
It's good.
Yeah. I love that.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Wow. Because we can be. Think about. We can be disillusioned, discouraged because we say, well, look at my life right now. How is that?
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: And. And maybe even someone listening today is feeling that same way. Like, man, I just. You know.
[00:14:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: And that's why we talk life like, hey, life is hard.
There is hardships, there is. Right. There is discouragement there. We don't have to pretend anymore. Right. We don't have to pretend we're going through a rough patch. Not to pretend when. When we're. We're discour. Discourage and not. But. But. And because both are true. And Christ meets me right there. He meets me right there in my sadness or discouragement or frustration.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: I don't have to pretend that. That he is in me and he is in you as a believer. And he's meeting us right there. Not. Not my circumstance or not to give me something that. That the flesh wants, but to meet me right there to give me that peace, to give me that joy, to give me his perspective. Right. To give me his eyes, the mind of Christ. I don't know if that makes sense.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: It does. It does. I love that.
And just. Just thinking even back to our own personal journeys into this. It's like hardships come in life and how do you personally approach those now that you have this perspective and you can see through this lens compared to how you used to do it when you were really trying to.
Trying is a great word. Striving.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: You know, what's. What's it look like? It looks so much different, doesn't it, for you? I know it does.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: And I'll say this, that when I am. When I am not living Christ in me in that moment, right. Then it will.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: It will whack me. And I'm telling you, man, when. When you have the mind of Christ, when. When you're looking at things from his perspective, it becomes exciting.
It's like an excitement of saying, okay, we have financial challenges. God, I'm excited to see how you'll meet my needs. God, I'm excited for how you'll turn this around. I'm excited how you'll bring reconciliation in these relationships. When we have the mind of Christ. There's hopeful excitement.
It's. It's like. It's like you. You're. You know, he's gonna do something. So I've. In other words, I've never saw God as big as he is now. To me, Right. God was. That was a pretty small God because. Because I was on top of my game and I was doing all these great things for him.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: And. And now it's like. Now it's like God's a great thing. And I. Yeah, I wanna. I want to champion him.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Wow.
Yeah. We've so been conditioned in all the years growing up and in the church and all that to really kind of box God in, to think that he only works in this way and we all must look alike and do this thing.
Steve Taylor, I think his name is. He's a musician, he's a producer, mostly now in Nashville, but he's got a song from, like, 1984 that I just came across, which is just funny.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: I was. I was five years old at the time, but it's called I Want to Be a Cologne. And it's. And it's about his experience in the church.
And that is just.
If you want to be a godly person, you just need to look like me and walk like me and talk like me and do what I'm doing. And he just. He nails it back in 1980, 80, whatever it was.
And, you know, we're not here, of course, to bash on anyone. It's just we were in that same context and doing the very same thing.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Because we had. No, we didn't. We couldn't see from any other lens. We only knew what was in front of us and what we were equipped to see and to do. And that's what really, the beginning point is. Always ask God.
Ask God and he will open the eyes of your heart, as Ephesians 1 says.
[00:18:45] Speaker A: Right. And. And in the proper time, he'll answer.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: And he's always at work. Right? He's always at work. We have the eyes to see.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Right.
For sure.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Just if I don't have eyes to see, then it is a mystery. Just going back to your theme.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. You know, it remains a mystery even though it's not really a mystery.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: For sure.
That's why I want to touch on. On Romans 16, because I think. Yeah, I just felt, boy, I'm reading some stuff that is just jumping off the page to me. This is. What it says is verse 25 and 26.
Now, to him who is able to Establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: According to the revelation of the mystery, which has been kept secret for.
For long ages past. And I just love a couple of phrases here that he uses, that it's Him. God.
[00:19:48] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: Who is able to establish you.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: And how much as we as, as parents and as leaders have tried to establish people according to our mentality or do as I our expectations.
It's a great word, but it is him who establishes it is God who brings the revelation.
And so it is our job as parents then and as leaders to journey with our kids or with people that were discipling to let them have the space to hear from God.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: And not try to manufacture it.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Right.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: And that really changes everything.
And so verse 26 goes on. You know, here's this mystery that's been kept a secret, but now is manifested and by scripture of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God has been made known to all nations, leading to obedience of faith.
Well, I like to take that word, faith, and use the word trust because that's really what faith is.
And it's crucial to understand, because Paul uses this often, the obedience of faith, that it's not the faith of obedience, it is the obedience of faith. So my trusting God is obedient and is probably, as we've said many times, probably the hardest thing to do is to trust in God. But it's beautiful how much that very much is the obedience really that we're to fix our eyes on Jesus and live out of who we. Who we specifically are. It really.
It changes everything.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: It changes everything. And. And again, it's God establishing it. Us.
Right? It's God establishing us. It's. It's God who's the initiator. He's the initiator. He's the initiator.
I like that.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: He. His focus is on Christ, the riches of the mystery. Is Christ in.
Yes.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: And so I love. I love it. And then. And then again, what's our response? Right. The obedience of faith.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Right? Yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: You know, the. The trust. Obedience of trust.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: For sure. I love that. And Frank Friedman actually told me I was sharing with him, like, I'm not really sure what to do with. Sure. This is early on. What do I do with church? How do I. I don't know if I can preach. I don't know if I can. I don't know how to leave music.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: I don't know how to pray anymore, Frank. And he said when it comes to, to preaching. He said, just preach Jesus.
And I was like, well, that's, that seems just so simple.
Because it is.
And because it's not my job to change everybody.
And we, we think that we have to give this really good, eloquent sermon so that people will make a decision.
[00:22:56] Speaker A: I know it's, it's a great fear of mine, of what's. Go ahead.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, you're right on. That's.
It's just, that's exactly what we've been kind of conditioned really to, to think and to, to the way to behave. And we've mastered the art of the challenge.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: Right. And if I just have the right illustrations and if I just have the three point sermons and I just have the. And you know, and I, and I have everything so good. And, and yet it is Paul's words who says, the Lord's servant must be able to teach, but it is God who may grant them repentance. And that's where I Love this. Romans 16, that it is God who does the work. It is God who establishes it. And so for me or for you, just, hey, I'm just gonna talk about Jesus. I'm going to talk about, you know, Christ is in me. So whether I'm talking, whatever I'm talking about is Christ. Right?
Right. Yeah, yeah. And so it is God who's doing the work. It is freeing. That's the word I was trying to get to. It is so much freeing.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: Yes. It's so true. And, and the examples from scripture to talk about this union are very specific that relate to this. And I'll just use the one. I mean, he does use a husband and a wife. Just, you know, you become one flesh. The Bible says that.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: And you obviously don't lose who you are. Like the wife is still the wife and the husband's still the husband.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: Right?
That's right.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: There's a perfect example of this unit. But then also like this, the vine and the branches, you know, is another example that Jesus uses in John 15.
And Christ is a vine. All who believe in him are the branches. And the branch draws life from the vine, and so we draw life from Christ. And so you have this reality, though, that the branch remains a branch and the vine remains a vine. But then going off of like what you were just saying is, well, what, what happens when I do something good in my life?
People look at me and they say they saw me do it. So they say, oh, you did that? You're. But then I'm saying, no, but that's not me. That was Christ in me. So it's like, well, what's. Who's doing it? And the answer is, yeah.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: Because you're in union.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: Right. That's.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: That's where it still kind of remains, that mystery to understand.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: What does that really look like? But when I am presenting myself to God rather than presenting myself to sin, if I'm presenting myself to God, just the overflow is going to be me being light, being salt, being a witness. And it's going to look really beautiful.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: It's so beautiful. And Paul himself says, we confess. Great is the mystery of God. 2nd Timothy 3, 1st Timothy 3, 16. I'm okay with mystery. I'm okay with. Yeah, I'm okay with. Totally with. With this union.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: I'm. I'm thankful. I'm humble.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: I'm okay with not knowing everything.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: Experiencing it. Right. Living it out.
[00:26:03] Speaker B: Right. Right. For sure. That that is truly the walk of faith, which is a walk of trust.
And there's no more beautiful picture.
Praise God for his glorious mystery.
Jesus Christ. Christ in us. The hope of glory.
Hallelujah.