Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: So Peter says you have everything you need for life and godliness. Paul says you are complete in Christ. And so I just wrote down here, do I actually believe it?
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Am I aware of it? Because. Because of being aware of it is a big deal.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Right.
[00:00:15] Speaker A: Having my eyes open. And I know we'll talk about that. That's a big thing for both of us. But do I believe it? And I wrote down here, do I have it? You know, because. Because I don't believe I have it most of the time.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Right.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: For most of my life. Maybe you could say that. For most of my life.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that's. That' true for me, too, unquestionably. And that's. That's where I go to this question out of the rest of the gospel. So I'm going to use these two books just because. And I'll get to that in a minute. But the question is this. What. What am I going to agree is true? Is it what God says, or is it what I currently see or what I currently feel or what I currently believe about myself that is inaccurate? Am I going to believe God's truth or am I going to just keep holding on? Hello, and welcome to let's Talk Life. We are doing life together.
And I'm putting my phone and do not disturb mode because it was making noise as I hit record. Carl sitting in his furnace room.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Where are you? Where are you? This morning?
[00:01:14] Speaker B: I'm at home in my bedroom, the only room besides the bathroom with a lock on it to hide from everybody. And, yeah, it's a different week, a different day.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: But we just.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Well, I just want to. Go ahead.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: I was just gonna say we just kind of go with the flow. Yeah.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: I just want.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: It's a great place.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: It's a great place. I just wanted to let you know, Zach, I am fully endorsing you this morning. I got my zr. My ZR Ministry shirt. I got the awesome Life Not Lies behind me, and product placement for those of you watching. And if you're. If you're just listening, you got to get to the YouTube, y'. All. Get to the YouTube. Check it out.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. Nice work.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: That's our sponsorship.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: There it is. Yep. So good. We're. Yeah. Journeying together. I don't know how many years it's been. It's like, it's hard to put all of it together when you. When you. Let's look back. I think for four, four and a half years, you know that God has been stirring in me that led me to a place of even resigning from church work. And, and that led me into just so much. And I might get into a little bit more of those details as we, as we talk, but I just, I start there simply because our title for episode 59 today is something more. And it's like I think we have everything that we need in Christ. Yes, but. But it's amazing how long I lived, how long so many believers live without knowing what we have in Christ. And so that's kind of where we're. Where we're stepping into. So. Anything you want to start with, Carl?
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah. No, no. So Peter says you have everything you need for life and godliness. Paul says you are complete in Christ. And so I just wrote down here, do I actually believe it?
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: Am I aware of it? Because. Because being aware of it is a big deal.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: Right?
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Having my eyes open. And I know we'll talk about that. That's a big thing for both of us. But do I believe it? And I wrote down here, do I have it? You know, because. Because I don't believe I have it most of the time.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: For most of my life. Maybe you could say that. For most of my life. Yeah.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: I mean that's. That's true for me too, unquestionably. And that's. That's where I go to this question out of the Rest of the Gospel. So I'm going to use these two books just because. And I'll get to that in a minute. But the question is this.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: What.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: What am I going to agree is true? Is it what God says or is it what I currently see or what I currently feel or what I currently believe about myself that is inaccurate. Am I going to believe God's truth or am I going to just keep holding on? And I just think it's really. So. I mean, that was for me this weekend. I had a great weekend. I forgot to mention some more stuff to you, Carl. We'll get to that off camera. But I had a men's breakfast Saturday morning. I had a zoom call with the True Face team and the cohort that I'm in.
That was Saturday, Sunday.
I have two book studies and the two books are the ones that I have right here.
And I just think it was really fascinating. Fascinating is the word that you always use. I like it. I'm going to steal it from you. It's fascinating that this book, the Rest of the Gospel, just the title in itself is this insinuation that is right, that there is more to the gospel than what we've seen. And then I get to this book. Stunned by Grace is another study that I'm going through with a group of guys. And this chapter happens to be called what Else happened on the Cross? Again, insinuating that there is more than what we've been taught and what we've seen.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: And so that's kind of, you know, right where I'm at. I have two book studies. Both the chapters that we were studying yesterday fell into this exact.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: It's just. It's just really amazing. So there is something that we've missed. There is something missing. That was me. I mean, just think about it.
43 years of my life growing up in the church, Bible college, serving in the church, and 43 years in, I'm still standing there going, where's the life in all of this?
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: And just that alone has to say, something is wrong. Something is missing. And so coming to that understanding and then finding by revelation, really my identity and understanding who I am in Christ, it's so crazy. It's so exciting. So that's where we're at today. That's where we're gonna kind of gonna dig in. Do you have anything? Just.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: Just the. The natural.
Maybe pushback is. The best word I can think of is. Well, what do you mean? Rest of the gospel? What do you mean? What do you mean I've missed out? I mean, because I've. I've known this my whole life, or, you know, that. That I preach it, I've taught it, and. So are you saying that there's extra things outside of this that I need to know? So. So that sort of the pushback is without even, you know, it's like. I already know that's. That's not for me.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: You know, so that's. It's kind of where probably you and I would have been, too.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Totally talking about 100%. I mean, that goes to my timeline that I shared briefly with you.
I don't. I don't even know the date. I would say two years before June of 2023.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: I can kind of guess a date.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: June of 2023 is when I resigned from church work. So it was two years before that that I began to pray, a prayer that God really started to open my eyes and started to. To move and stir within me. That led to my resignation. And it was three months later after I resigned. Three months. I mean, only three months. Like you think you could. You could, you know, 43 years is what I spent not understanding this, but it took three months after I resigned to step into and hear a message from John lynch, read the Cure, and just have my eyes open to some things and say, okay, God, this is where you've been leading me. This is where you've been taking me to open my eyes. And then a month after that, I stepped into a class that I had no idea what I was signing up for, but I. But I just said yes. And it's all, you know, history now. And it's. And it's a beautiful history of taking me into really, this understanding of who I am in Christ and being able to equip other people. And so it is really amazing because there is an element of. That's what I'm getting to is I would have never stepped into that conference. I would have never read the Cure, I would have never taken this class if I didn't resign from church work, because I was already doing it, because I already knew. So, yeah, just like what you're saying, I would have been like, no, this book, the rest, there's more to the gospel. That sounds like heresy.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: Right? Sure.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: That's what I would have declared and said, no, stay away from that.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: And also.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It is the Holy Spirit. I mean, Ephesians 1:18. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he's called you. Is that the verse? Because I'm sorry, I forget, Is that the verse or is it Ephesians 3 that your eyes be open? Which one is it? That really.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Ephesians 1:1 18. It's both.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, that's.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, Ephesians 1:17.
It goes into 18. They're both saying that. And that's. That's really it. It's the crux of my story.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And. Well, I think that's. That really think about this. It's really the crux of everybody's story. Right. Whether we know it or not. And so I can be caught in the rituals. And this is the problem. We take. We take the scripture and the life of Christ and the Holy Spirit in us, and we try and fit into a model that has been passed down, and we think that the two can coexist.
And it's. Yeah, it's like, no, no, no, no. This actually ship. It's a living God. Yeah. It actually is a relationship. And he's created this family around us, and so we sort of make it a Model. We try and fit it into a model which is like you're saying until you resigned. I mean you've, you've, I think you've said that three times already this morning. So the pivotal point in your life is saying I need to break away from this because where's the life? I mean that's the question. Where's, where's the life?
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: And I think that man, that's such a danger of the law based living.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Maybe that's the best way to put it. The law based living of. I got all these laws and it's not producing life. And we think it's obedience, but it actually isn't either. It's law based living. It's not heartfelt obedience of faith.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: So anyway, so I know you want to get into some of this stuff from.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I have a few things for sure. But I, and I'm just, I'm just really blown away even by just, just what you're saying. I mean, because it's, it's so true. I have some notes on my desk. I'm not at my desk, so I can't even remember them.
But how, how much this is all kind of relating because I think that there is, like there is the law. And as a general rule non denominational churches even are going to agree that, oh sure, you know, we don't live according to the law. But then we've put on this, these man made laws that we just, that we've made up that we follow these things like you do these things in order to be blessed and to be close to God. And those are still just a lie. We will never be closer to God than we are in union with him. And how can you be closer? You can't.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: Hey, hey. I want you to say that again because that's not a throwaway statement.
That's a statement of reality that every person needs to hear.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Could you say that again even if it's worded a little different?
[00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, closer in union, I'll even use Jeremy White's words. You know, he says that we are clean and we are close if we, we have to recognize and understand that we are righteous.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: So that we can, because we're righteous, we can be in union with God. And that's so crucial to understand.
And it brings such freedom in our lives to actually recognize these things and to trust these things that are true. Because when I actually look at myself as righteous and I'm, I'm close, I can actually be close. I can Be a temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can be in me, therefore I'm not a sinner. I am a saint.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: It's like all these identifiers that actually start to really equip you with the reality of who you are, and you can then live from that reality rather than trying to strive for this holiness, to do these things in order to be close.
Yeah, it never worked.
It was never meant to work. And so it was really always meant to miss the mark.
The law was always meant to cause us to miss the mark and to make us feel like, I can't do this. And God is like, yeah, you can't. And Jesus, Jesus comes and says, you need me.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, I think that that would be a great topic for another conversation is where does the law fit in today? Because there's so much teaching out there, we think that the Holy Spirit is going to help us follow the. Or whatever it may be. But I want to go back to what you said, because I think, I think that this, a goal for every Christian is to be closer to God. Like it's 2020 and it's January, and so it's like, man, I want to be closer to God this year. And, and, and what would you say to that, Zach? What would you say to that? That person out there is like, man, I want to get closer to God, because, man, doesn't that sound. That sounds great. I want to be.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Sounds wonderful, right? It sounds like a great start to your year and a great goal for the year. But the reality is if you are in Christ, if you, you're, you're close, you can't get any closer. And so it does my mind, yeah, it does come back to, to Romans 12, 1 and 2. Right. And it's like, well, I don't feel like I'm close because there is this maturing that has to happen. And I think that's where people are always going to try to lead it to say, well, that's what I want for, that's really what I want for 2026, is I want to mature in that. So in order for me to mature, well, right back into this list of things. I'm going to read my Bible every day. I'm going to go through this Bible reading plan. I'm going to do these things. It's like, okay, that can help you, but so can the Ten Commandments help you, but it's not going to produce the life. And that's, that's the crucial point of it all, for sure.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: And so the death on the cross, let's just face it. Substitution atonement. All right, we're not teaching heresy here.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: It. It did more than just bring forgiveness and. And a sacrifice for our sins, didn't it?
[00:13:36] Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: And so I think that's what I'd love for you to share.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: What else? What else did. The cross.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah, I think you said it.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Here's what he did for me. What did he.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah, to me. So I'm. I'm looking at my notes because I do like these two books done by grace. He says this.
I really want you to. He says, I want you to understand all the New Testament declares about you.
I want you to understand completely not only what has been done for you, but also what has been done to you so that you can believe what God says about you. And the rest of the gospel, he says it very much the same way. Jesus didn't just die to forgive us through our spirit union with him, he did something in us. And so we are, as Second Corinthians says, a new creation. And I think that's the biggest difficulty for people to receive and to believe and to accept about themselves, because they're like, yeah, but I still have this issue in my life. I still have sin in my life, or I still struggle in this area or that area. So it's like, well, I can't. There's no way I can possibly be a new creation. And it's like, you are. Because your identity is made up not by what you do. Your identity is based on birth, and you are born again.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: Right. Born above who you are.
Is Christ in you.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Right. I mean, it really does change everything, because if I'm only focusing on, like, what God has done for me, that will be the first 43 years of my life. Thank you, God, that you've done this for me. I'll praise God for what he's done for us. Now let's go out and live for him. That's kind of the conclusion of all.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: He did for us. Right. I mean, how many times. Of all he did for us. At least you could do this. Right. You could serve in the church and of. Part parking attendant and.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: Of all he did. And you can't just do this and it's.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Or clean up your act and do better.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: Right.
Come back next week, yell at you again.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Right, Right. And it's like, it's important to understand, of course, what he's done for us, but.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Right along with it. And what I think is the Most freeing aspect of it is to recognize that there is also life. So just as we're united with him in his death, we. We're also united with him in his resurrection and the newness of life, which is so incredibly beautiful.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Go walk in it. Yeah, Live this out. Hey, you're not instruments of sin anymore, guys. Go on, go out.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
So it does come down to what am I going to agree with? What am I going to agree is true? And then I love true face language of am I going to trust this truth? If you really want transformation in your life, you need to trust the truth about what God says about you. So. Right.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: You know, what's fascinating is, is when you look at a time sort of going in a new direction, but coming back.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: When you look at it, a timeline of Paul's writings, I mean, you're talking Corinth is sort of earlier. Galatians earlier. So right away we have the Galatians 2, 20.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: That I died. That. So when Christ died, I died too. So we have the identity verse right there, identification with Christ on the death. And so is Christ living his life in me and through me. Right. So that's early second Corinthians 5, a new creation. And then you have Colossians and, you know, complete in him, Christ in you at the sort of towards the end. And so you have a, you know, a message that Paul's preaching of completeness in Christ and Christ in us. Yeah, that sort of like the entire. And then you have Romans at some point, you know, and so. So you have a complete Christ in you message. So. So it's. It's maybe talked about differently, but it. It's all there, you know, throughout. Throughout his. His writings of this mystery, as he calls it, the mystery of godliness. To Timothy, that there is a mystery, there is something supernatural that's taking place that I need, like going back. I need eyes to see it. I need. I need spiritual eyes. There's something that's happening that.
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: I can't see in the national. And then.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Right, right. That's going back to the rest of the gospel language of the line. The stuff that's above the line is eternal. The stuff that's below the line is here that we can, you know, see, feel, hear and touch. And there really is no line because it's all happening in the. In the same time. Yes, but the reality is everything that is life giving is above the line. And it's stuff that we can't really see, hear, feel, and touch all the time. And so it does come down to trusting, which is faith, which is believing.
And that's so crucial just to trust those truths, man. Yeah, it's, it's so good. It's so, so amazing. I had a guy yesterday just asking about, out of stunned by grace. I loved where Frank had already laid it out for me to say, hey, he's already got Romans 6 right here in the book. Let's just go to Romans 6. What does it say? And so there was this question or there was a story basically that he's sharing with this guy that's struggling. Here's a young man who's struggling with pornography and he's talking about how he's just done everything he can to try to, you know, break this thing that's in his life and to not do that. He doesn't want this in his life. And he says he feels like a 2 ton gorilla on his chest. Like he, and he, you know, so like it's just impossible for him to get rid of. Then he stepped into freedom.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: And he says now it feels more like just this annoying, you know, little barky nippy chihuahua. And I love that analogy. So someone brought that up in our, in our discussion yesterday, saying, what does that mean? Like how, how has he stepped in? Is he, is he actually free? And, and so that's where I, I just said, well, right here in that whole section of his book, Frank takes us right to Romans chapter six. And I love Romans chapter six. And I would say this is part of the, the journey for me of that. This is a chapter that I never would have understood before.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Because I just, I couldn't grasp it. Similar to what this guy was asking.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: Sin was always this huge gorilla that I, that I couldn't get off my chest.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: And now it is, it's more like this little barking chihuahua that can just be like, well, I can move you out of the way and. Because I'm dead to that. And that's what this says in verse 11 of Romans 6. Even so, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
And you know, why would we who have died still live in, in that nonsense thinking, let's instead trust the truth that is laid out for us right here. Consider yourself, count yourself, reckon yourself, reckon consider to be.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Because we don't, we don't think of it. So in this, in the rest of the gospel, he says, we don't feel dead, we don't look dead, we don't act dead. But the truest part of me, the Holy Spirit, opens my eyes, pulls back the curtain, shows us that in the deepest part of you and me, the Spirit, who we truly are, death has occurred, has forever changed us. Wow. We're going to look the same, feel the same, think the same, but we're going to know something we're not. Yes.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: And so, so the struggle with sin doesn't get better by me getting serious about it or working really hard on it to try and make God happier or to please him. Because I'm really. I want to show him I'm serious about it. This year in 2026. It actually comes from a posture of dependency saying, I can't do anything about it. It's only my only hope is Christ in me every day of my life. And so I'm like in a posture of I'm gonna let you live your life through me, Jesus.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: I'm gonna let you. Life, John 10:10, right. The full, abundant life. And so the only posture of all of us is dependence, not self reliance or self sufficiency or the American Dream. That's not the relationship with the Father. It's a full dependency, full reliance on the Holy Spirit.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Right. Wow. So incredibly good. And we have to wrap it up even from there. I have a note on here. I remember I put this post out there many years ago and it's just, it's interesting. I had. The Jones Soda is a. Is a soda company and they have these little. You take off this little metal cap off this glass bottle and it's got these little messages in it. And I remember taking a picture of it and posting it because it actually really spoke to me at that time even. And it still relates. It said, don't believe everything you think because in life we have. There's some. There's flesh, there's. There's that stinking thinking that gets in the way. And so you don't believe everything that you think just in the day to day stuff, as you're frustrated with stuff, believe everything that God is saying is true about you. And as long as your thinking is lining up with what he's saying is true. Trust that. But everything else that is like I'm just worthless or I'm. I'll never be successful. I'll never get over the. Don't believe those things. Don't believe everything that you think. That's the devil's playground to tear us down for sure. So. Wow, good stuff. Always a pleasure talking life with Ikaro.
